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Bugera BV1001M vs. EBS Reidmar - recordings of tweeter noise and DI out

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Adam Harzuf, Oct 25, 2018.


  1. Adam Harzuf

    Adam Harzuf

    Nov 16, 2004
    Israel
    Hi Guys,
    I made this only partially scientific test about noise levels, and how the amps sound when clipped.
    Bass- Warwick Corvette short scale passive.
    EBS now sells a similar version to the Reidmar - the Reidmar 500. Same watt ratings, but some minor differences I didn't get into. I think the EQ points are a bit different.

    File 01- condenser
    A condenser mic has been placed 15cm away from the tweeter of a Genzler MG-212T 4ohm cab.
    Amp: Gain and volume all the way up.
    Bass: Just a bit of level.

    findings:
    In order to match the audible playing level of the "2000w @4ohm" Bugera to the "470w @4ohm" Reidmar, I had to raise the Bugera by 8dB in my sequencer!
    The Reidmar is tons louder, although it's rated a quarter of the watts!
    YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

    The Bugera is tonally brighter, and the noise level during play is a bit louder than the EBS after raising the recording level.


    File 02 - DI pre eq
    A DI recording with both the bass and the input gain maxed out, followed by silence.
    No level matching has been done in the sequencer.

    findings:
    The Bugera is a tad louder in the gain section. The EBS clipped a little bit. but this is insignificant, as you can always reduce it.
    The important part, is that both sound quiet during playing and during silence.

    File 03 - DI post eq
    The EQ switch on the back of both amps is at "post" position.

    findings:
    there is a noticeable and similar level drop with both amplifiers. However, I find that the Bugera's clipping sound is harsh and unusable. However, the EBS sounds more like an overdrive pedal, and not a too bad one...

    File 04 - fan noise
    The Bugera sounds a bit louder in the lower frequencies.
    Both are acceptable but not very quiet, at least in comparison to a low noise computer fan.

    Conclusions
    Bugera BV1001M pros:
    Very good DI sound.

    Bugera BV1001M cons:
    definitely not 2000w@4 ohm!!! can't hold a candle compared to the Reidmar.
    Sterile sounding (amp)
    Higher noise level (amp)
    EQ knobs affect the tone lesser than the Reidmar.
    a bit louder fan noise.
    Less versatile EQ than Reidmar (midrange specific frequency selection)
    "Ultra low" adds noise to the tweeter. Weird.
    "Ultra high" does that as well. Expected.

    Reidmar pros:
    a definitely more powerful amp section. makes a good gigging amp for loud styles.
    a warmer, growling sound.
    sounds good when the EQ section is overdriven.
    The "character" button adds subs but doesn't raise the noise level.

    Reidmar cons:
    No mute button.
    No Pad or active/passive button.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  2. AlexanderB

    AlexanderB

    Feb 25, 2007
    Sweden
    So where did you set the EBS "Bright" control at?
    Was it at noon?
     
  3. Adam Harzuf

    Adam Harzuf

    Nov 16, 2004
    Israel
    completely counter-clockwise. That means not altering the sound.
    Basically, even with the master volume all the way down, you could hear some noise, which is not very acceptable for a small room.
    I have to turn off the tweeter in the cab to feel comfortable with it.
    In an average gig, no problem!
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
    AlexanderB likes this.
  4. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Noise level with the bass unplugged can be a misleading condition, as the source impedance of the bass typically decreases the (self) noise floor considerably if the input jacks to not tie the input to ground when unplugged. The real test would be with the input terminated with about 22k which represents the typical passive pickup's terminating load.

    Noise floor must also be compared at the same overall gain, an otherwise identical amp that has 10dB more overall gain will also have 10dB greater noise floor with the controls set the way you have them.

    Your conparison here is highly flawed IME.
     
  5. Adam Harzuf

    Adam Harzuf

    Nov 16, 2004
    Israel
    I edited the post and uploaded a new "File 01" without the silence of the unplugged bass. thanks for your input.
    I hope now that my post doesn't mislead anyone.

    That's a good point. Nevertheless, do you think active pickups would help and the difference might be more noticeable with the Bugera?

    Yes, that's clear. I wish to stress again, that the noise level relative to the playing level is still superior with the Reidmar.
    Both amps don't have a very adequate noise floor for room usage.
    Obviously, the Reidmar is much more powerful. Considering that, it's hard to complain.

    Is there a way to add a load to the amplifier, so it will go down in both max power and noise floor?
    I'd really like that!
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  6. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Active pickups may lower the noise floor due to low source impedance, but may also raise the noise floor due to the active electronics. No simple answer here.
     
  7. AlexanderB

    AlexanderB

    Feb 25, 2007
    Sweden
    Great! That control is "boost only", a fact missed by many reviewers and demos!
    Regarding relative noise levels etc, the fact remains that an integrated amp with the master all the way down should have virtually ZERO audible noise.
    These amps are still fairly small compared to most PA amps, and most bass cabs have moderate sensitivity compared to big PA cabs.
    IIRC, my mid 90s NAD 2700 THX (2x600W in 4 Ohms?) had a S/N ratio of 120-ish dB. It was DEAD quiet even through a PA horn.

    Audible noise floor with master OFF should not even be happening.
     
  8. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    The Bugera has non-defeatable parallel compression built in. I believe this is a contributing factor in the noise of this amp. Quiet details are brought up in level but so is the noise floor.

    So far I haven't heard a bass amp that maintains the clarity and quietness of a decent channel strip into a quality power amp. Haven't tried everything.
     
    AlexanderB likes this.

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