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Build fearful bagend inspired

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DIYjapan, May 19, 2017.


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  1. DIYjapan

    DIYjapan

    May 7, 2017
    Thinking of building my own cab to replace a Hartke 35 combo amp.
    I love the simple looks of old Bag End amps (s12b-b) and I also totally love the look and the wonderful reviews of fearfuls 12/6.
    Which has me wanting to make a simple single 12 inch speaker cab with a kappa lite 3012 (or LF version) with a front vent similar to the Fearfuls and Eden cabs.
    Sizewise we're talking 65cm height, 41cm wide, 38~9cm deep.

    So, any thoughts on
    1: 3012 vs. 3012LF
    2: how wide to make the vent on the front?
    3: can this be made without a crossover? (Really don't want one).
    Thanks for any creative help and comments.
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  2. NKBassman

    NKBassman Lvl 10 Nerd Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2009
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Hi there, and welcome to talkbass!

    Keeping it brief, all I can say is that it's not really that simple. The fEarful cabs are very carefully thought out and meticulously designed to make sure every aspect of the cabinet works together to produce the "great reviews" you've read about. This includes the size of the box, port size and depth, speaker(s), crossover, internal bracing, etc etc. Bass cab design is much more involved than simply picking a speaker and putting it in a box. If you want it to have the sound and performance of a fEarful cabinet, then that's what you should build with no compromises to the original design. Which is not a bad idea, since all the hard design work is already done for you. I built myself a 15/6 years ago and it's a great cabinet. If you order a complete flatpack from Speaker Hardware literally all you have to do is assemble it.

    Quick, unhelpful answers to your questions:
    1) Depends on #3.
    2) Depends on #1.
    3) Depends on #1.

    ;)

    Quick, slightly-less-unhelpful answers to your questions:
    1) If no crossover, then do not use the 3012LF. The LF lacks the high frequencies required to be used on its own for bass guitar. Look at the frequency plots provided by Eminence and you'll see the difference between the two.
    2) Depends on the speaker you choose, the size of the box you put it in, and the goals you're trying to achieve by designing your own cabinet. Do you want the frequency response to go as low as possible? Or do you prefer a gentle bass rolloff starting at a higher frequency? Do you want to build in a slight bump in the bass response? Or do you want it to be as flat as possible?
    3) Sure it can be designed without a crossover. Whether it should be or not depends on the speaker you choose and the frequency response you want.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    40Hz, Pbassmanca, gregmon79 and 5 others like this.
  3. Blues Bass 2

    Blues Bass 2 Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2001
    Davenport Iowa
    The 3012 is what you want between the 3012 and the 3012LF .The 3012 goes much higher into the mids than the LF version and takes less power to get loud . What head are you going to drive it with ?
     
    andruca likes this.
  4. NKBassman

    NKBassman Lvl 10 Nerd Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2009
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Eminence usually offers basic cab designs for a lot of their speakers. That would probably be a great place to start.
     
    BadExample likes this.
  5. Blues Bass 2

    Blues Bass 2 Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2001
    Davenport Iowa
    Also there is a cabinet plan for a Deltalite 2512 II by Talkbasser fdeck . Pretty much just what you are looking for . The Deltalite seems smoother to me than the 3012 but doesn't handle as much power . It has plenty of highs without a tweeter and also goes deep . I built a 212 cab with a pair and I'm very happy with it .

    http://personalpages.tds.net/~fdeck/bass/speakerpics.html

    Here is the original article .
    http://personalpages.tds.net/~fdeck/bass/smallbox.pdf

    Here's the thread with my 212 cab using the Deltalites based on Eminence plans like NKBassman recommended .
    New 212 build
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    BadExample and DIYjapan like this.
  6. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2011
    Grand Rapids Michigan
    If you want the performance of the fEARful, then you should build it exactly to spec with the cross over, the mid driver, and the appropriate woofer.

    If you want to use different drivers, then you should explore cabinet design, and build something optimal for the driver you choose. The 3012 will not work as well as you may like or expect in the fEARful cab, as it is optimized for the LF version.
     
  7. Stu_Bass

    Stu_Bass Supporting Member

    Nov 24, 2006
    Pennsyltucky
    You could build a fEarful 12 sub with the LF driver but I think you would be happier with the 12/6 as a single cabinet.
     
    Jim Carr and DIYjapan like this.
  8. DIYjapan

    DIYjapan

    May 7, 2017
    I'd be using it with a TCElectronics BH250. Nothing to rock a stadium with but a beautifully simple little head.
     
  9. Stu_Bass

    Stu_Bass Supporting Member

    Nov 24, 2006
    Pennsyltucky
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  10. DIYjapan

    DIYjapan

    May 7, 2017
    Ok, wow that was a very insightful and wonderfully articulate answer to my NewB question. Thanks. I probably should just go for a fEARful 12/6 and not look back... still may do that. But, I was sort of hoping for something that I didn't have to ship parts to Japan for...which ups the cost 60~70%.
    In regards to your advice 1: the 3012 sounds great. 2: I think a nice roll off with no bump would be ideal and 3: I play a four string simple country/blues bass so I don't need to dig deep.
     
    Jim Carr and NKBassman like this.
  11. Brother Goose

    Brother Goose The Process IS the Reward!

    Dec 4, 2013
    Syracuse NY
    God Is Love
    Slightly off topic- has anyone here used a 3012 in combination with an LF speaker?

    I have a proper 12/6 and have considered building a similar shaped but not LF cab that could provide some additional full range volume or be an option for gigs which don't require HUGE blooming bass.

    I understand that the LF cab will kick the other cabs butt and they can't handle the same power... Perhaps even thinking of building a 12/6 with a lesser speaker until an LF falls into my lap.
     
    DIYjapan likes this.
  12. DIYjapan

    DIYjapan

    May 7, 2017
    Something similar to one of these (but vertical not horizontal) with a vent/port on the front.
     

    Attached Files:

    gregmon79 likes this.
  13. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2011
    Grand Rapids Michigan
    Then I would be building a 215 to get the most out of your low powered head.

    Your results will be determined by the design you end up with. There are a lot of particulars to consider before knowing if what you build may work well with what you have.
     
    DIYjapan likes this.
  14. DIYjapan

    DIYjapan

    May 7, 2017
    This is sort of my thinking... similar shaped cab with the regular 3012. While maybe not optimal would/could it work?
    Sub question: would a xover be necessary? Could it be run straight to the jacks?
     
  15. NKBassman

    NKBassman Lvl 10 Nerd Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2009
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    No need to necessarily buy a kit from the US. You could download the plans and source your own parts locally to still build a fEarful design. At most you might need to mail order the specific crossover for the 12/6 design, if that's what you choose to build.
     
  16. DIYjapan

    DIYjapan

    May 7, 2017
    Yes a 215 would be great but way overkill for me. Plus portability goes way down when you switch to 15s over 12s.
    Maybe I should just make the 12/6 and add a sub later if it's needed... but then I need an 18sound mid and they aren't available here. I wish the the eminence 3012 and alpha6 worked with a sub.

    Maybe this is silly but why is the 18sound necessary when a sub is added?
     
    NKBassman and Brother Goose like this.
  17. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Because it has the needed sensitivity to keep up with two 3012LFs, unlike most 6.5" mid drivers. If it were me I would probably just build one 12/6 with the Alpha driver and build another one later if needed.
     
  18. Brother Goose

    Brother Goose The Process IS the Reward!

    Dec 4, 2013
    Syracuse NY
    God Is Love
    A proper 12/6 can handle most gigs. I'm not sure that an 18 sound is essential for success with a sub (but you may not have the perceived volume you'd want due to the overpowering low end).

    Peavey is also right about the fact that LF speakers really demand LOTS of power to open up.

    I ran my 12/6 with a carvin bx500 @ 8 ohms and it was plenty loud but didn't even begin to utilize the low end potential. (I use a GK plex into a Carvin HD3000 bridged now).

    Recently picked up a 12/6 crossover network and will probably buy another 6a mid soon (someone has a good deal on two of them in the classifieds).

    I can't imagine how wonderful my world will be with TWO 12/6 cabs...
     
  19. NKBassman

    NKBassman Lvl 10 Nerd Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2009
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    You can build a 12/6 with Alpha mid driver, just make sure you order the right crossover.