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Building a 1x10 cab

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by JC Vallejo, Jun 10, 2019.


  1. Hello!

    I'm a bassist that just started go get some small outdoor gigs. My medium size rig is a Markbass traveler 102P and a TC Electronic BQ250 (I got a Genz Benz ShuttleMax 12.0 and a 1x15 cab that I designed and built for larger venues).

    The thing is that lastly some venues are in large open malls and I need to carry my rig for a mile from my car to the gig place (yeah, yeah, I know, it's not even a quarter of mile, but you know what I mean) and since we're not a loud band (we play jazz and instrumental rock and surf like The Ventures / Shadows) my rig is almost iddle. I mean, nor the bass or the cab volume arr even at 40% of the volume, so I decided to pull the trigger on a small but good sounding combo or cabinet.

    My first options were a Markbass 801, Markbass CMD 101, Trace Elloit Elf 1x10, Genz Benz 10T but I could not found them in good shape at a great price, so meanwhile I hunt one of them I thought that maybe it was time to put hands on and build my next cab.

    I'm considering to use one of these drivers:

    Faital Pro 10FH520
    Neodymium 8 Ohm 600W RMS
    Freq 60 to 4,000Hz
    Sensivity 97dB
    Fs 60Hz
    Xmax 7.25mm
    Weight 9.55lbs
    $267

    B&C 10NW64
    Neodymium 8 Ohm 300W RMS
    Freq 50 to 2,500Hz
    Sensivity 96dB
    Fs 50Hz
    Xmax 8mm
    Weight 7.7lbs
    $165

    Eminence Kappalite 3010LF (Out from catalog, but still able to get one)
    Neodymium 8 Ohm 450W RMS
    Freq 42 to 1,600Hz
    Sensivity 92.7dB
    Fs 39Hz
    Xmax 8.5mm
    Weight 7.6lbs
    $185

    Roughly I see the Faital Pro more loud but less low end. Eminence the opposite and the B&C in the middle. My newbie logic says Eminence because althought it's just 92.7dB it would handle better low frequencies, but I doubt that the Markbass, Trace Elliot and GenzBenz 1x10 stuff has these numbers. The thing is that I'm lost on how bad is getting a driver that goes from 50 to 2,500Hz and not from 40Hz (as far as I know, 4th string E is 40Hz), I mean, are all drivers used in commercial cabinets going from 40Hz?

    Trying to buy stuff by numbers is making me think a lot on the tradeoffs but without a real life clue about how good or bad are these numbers compared with the high runners from the good commertial brands.

    Any inputs regarding the driver chosing are more than welcome. It would be also very helpful to get crossover and tweeter recommendations.

    Here's a pic from my first and so far only gig with this band so you can picture my situation and needs.

    Thanks!
    upload_2019-6-10_23-0-11.png
     
  2. MarkA

    MarkA In the doghouse. Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    Are you playing Surf Rock on a fretless six? :)

    You might find it worthwhile to look at @DukeLeJeune's DIY 110 thread. It's a long thread so, aside from building the cab as originally presented, here are the variations I recall:
    • "Stock" is built using a commercial subwoofer box that just happened to have about the right dimensions and tuning. Some folks, of course, built their own boxes out of "real" wood.
    • Some people subbed the Deltalite II 2510 for the recommended driver [Basslite S 2010] to get more volume and power handling -- I have two such boxes though, to my chagrin, I didn't build them. They sound pretty good to me, all things considered, but I haven't heard the original version, so can't compare.
    • There was some discussion of lowering the box tuning slightly, and Duke gave some suggestions for how to do that.
    • There was discussion of a simple filter to smooth out the stock driver's midrange peak (optional).
    Though the cabs I have contain the Deltalite II driver, one very easily handles stuff like you're talking about. I imagine that the "stock" driver would be able to, as well. The cab doesn't go super deep, but that has actually been an advantage on a certain boomy stage. Not sure how great it would be for low B, but you could experiment with the box tuning, there.

    Finally, when you look at frequency response numbers, take them with anywhere from a pinch to a shaker of salt unless more context is given. Two cabs might claim response down to 40 Hz, but one might be 3 dB (decibels) down there while the other is down 15 dB or more. Big difference, even if they claim the same range.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    singlemalt and AstroSonic like this.
  3. MarkA

    MarkA In the doghouse. Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    Here's the thread:

    Low-cost DIY practice/coffeehouse tweeterless 110 [long]

    If you search "DIY 110" you'll find some spin-offs inspired by it.

    As for the drivers you list, I know very little about speaker/cab design, but I can tell you that the 3010 LF needs a mid/high driver to be suitable for electric bass. Lower sensitivity than the other two as well. Box design (volume, tuning, etc.) will be influenced largely by your choice of driver.

    There's more, but I'll leave it to others more familiar with this stuff to comment further.

    Good luck! Have fun!
     
    singlemalt likes this.
  4. MarkA

    MarkA In the doghouse. Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    One more thing, depending on your budget, how complicated you want the build to be, and how big of a cab you want to put up with, you might try building a two-way (three, if you're very ambitious) cab. (Some of the drivers you posted made me think of that.)

    There are plans available, free and commercially, for different ones. You've got those, the build threads on here, and some talented people (not I) who can give you constructive criticism if you decide to design your own.
     
  5. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    The answer to that part of your post is no. I'm no authority, but my experience is that most small enclosures exhibit a roll-off in low-end response in the lowest octave. Most folks find that acceptable...the fundamental of the lowest notes is not as important to the overall sound as the first few harmonics.
     
  6. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    Massachusetts, USA
    How about something like the Fender Rumble 15?

    $79, 16 pounds, nice looking.
     
  7. Rick James

    Rick James Banned

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    Designing a speaker isn't as easy as it might seem. You need to have acoustical engineering skills to choose the right driver and determine the cabinet configuration, and structural engineering skills to design the actual box. If you have to ask what driver to use you shouldn't be thinking about trying it. Get plans from an experienced speaker designer, like Greenboy or Bill Fitzmaurice, use a driver that the plans specify.
     
  8. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    Is your current cab 8ohm? And are you happy with the sound? If so my first thought would be to see if I could source a 16ohm speaker identical to those in the Markbass and build a half size version of the Markbass cab. You'd then have a choice of 1 2 or 3 10s with increasing power, and they'd all match sonically.
     
  9. JRA

    JRA my words = opinion Supporting Member

    sounds to me like you want to build something. :D

    but for less than $20 USD your problem goes away:
    Sears.com

    good luck with your mall gigs! :thumbsup:
     
  10. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    Said it before, and I say it again: it ain't rocket science. Yes, you need some basic knowledge and skills, but it shouldn't take an advanced degree in anything to select a driver or two from the handful of likely candidates and then plug the parameters into a freeware program to 'design' a box. There are only so many variables involved. And not too much in the way of structural engineering skills are required to build a serviceable small, rectangular bass-reflex box for one 10" driver. Yes, something more complicated requires a great deal more knowledge and I do recommend building a proven design if one has higher ambitions, but I don't see how it's all that involved to build a simple bass-reflex box. Now whether it's better, or cheaper, or lighter, or better-looking than something you can just buy is subject to debate, but I don't think the forum does itself any favors in discouraging potential new builders.
     
    JRA likes this.
  11. Rick James

    Rick James Banned

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    It might not be rocket science but it is science. If the OP was asking about what box to put a $30 driver into that's one thing, but he's looking at spending $165 to $267. I thinks that's deserving of a professional design.
     
    JRA likes this.
  12. jlepre

    jlepre Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Cedar Knolls, NJ
    scowboy, elgranluis and Clutchcargo like this.
  13. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    I agree that this is a reasoned approach. I'd probably just try to get the 8-ohm version of the driver under the theory that I'm never going to want to use both cabs together, but the other way is also very workable. I've had the experience of amps sounding kind of anemic when driving a single 16-ohm speaker but working fine with an 8-ohm driver.
     
  14. john m

    john m Supporting Member

    Jan 15, 2006
    Elf 1-10 used.
     
  15. nilorius

    nilorius

    Oct 27, 2016
    Riga - Latvia
    10" cab 300W - 800W are you nuts ???
     
    scowboy likes this.
  16. Yes, it's not the more natural sound for surf but I'm trying to get used to fretless so I'll play worth it at every chance that I get for a time... My other player is a Cirrus USA 6 strings. Regarding the design, I'm paying close attention to your advice and will dive into that thread.


    I get what you say and your second answer but my main goal is to learn and have fun while achieving a decent sounding cab. My worst scenario is having to redesign a different enclosure or buying one, but the driver choosing have to be at least good enough to start working from there. I understand the general trade offs on different specs, at least on that shown in my 3 options, but I know that in the design task I will require to understand far more. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the idea of buying a high cost driver and get an awful result, but meanwhile the driver has specs that makes sense I would just be scraping enclosures and several Sunday hours :D

    This makes a lot of sense, indeed as I also read, a 8ohm would be a nice option. 16ohm powered with my small amp would be maybe not as punchy.

    I'll try to email different brands and see what do they offer for replacing a Markbass Traveler 102P driver and why not? maybe looking at Markbass itself for an in-house driver :cool:

    You nailed it. I want to build something and learn from it. Your Sears suggestion will be my give up plan :laugh:

    Of course! Did you missed the part where I play surf rock with a 6 string fretless bass? However if I'm getting your comment right, I would say that I'm not looking for high power drivers for power sake but for headroom.
     
    JRA likes this.
  17. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Colorado
    For years I have wanted to build a cabinet like the old Acoustic 360 or 301 cab, but instead of being 4' x 2' x 2' it would be more like 2' x 1' x 1'

    Sorta like this one

    [​IMG]

    But these failed in the marketplace

    I think these were 4 ohm cabs … I wonder what it would sound like to have 2 of these loaded with an 8 ohm driver and then run 2 for a 4 ohm load
     
  18. nilorius

    nilorius

    Oct 27, 2016
    Riga - Latvia
    Power sake or headroom....there are no speaker 10'' that will give you 800W power in your headroom, only in your dreams.
     
  19. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    The downside would be that if you stack an 8ohm 1*10 and an 8ohm 2*10 the 1*10 will get half the output. If you think you'll never need to do that then no problem.
     
  20. singlemalt

    singlemalt Supporting Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    White Salmon, WA
    Build a fEarful 12/6 in either the cube or rectangular form.

    It’s a sure fire winner. Free detailed plans, easy parts ordering. Go on over the Greenboy’s web site. Speaker hardware for one stop shopping.

    I prefer the cube shape, since it stacks well with other fEarfuls. Use the inexpensive alpha 6 mid and the simple “cheap but good” crossover.

    You’ll find tons of build threads and help on the Greenboy forum.

    Or follow Duke’s plan for the 1-10, but build your own cab. The dimensions for that box are listed. You’d want to make some changes to have a grill.

    There’s no need to reinvent the wheel, become a audio scientist, or rely on the wild ass guess.

    The 1-10 is going to have brick wall limits for volume. The 12/6 will do a great job handling your power.

    The fEarfuls blew all my other DIY cabs out of the water. I’ve built four so far, the 12/6 cubes are my favorites.
     

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