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Building a 2X15 W/ K140´s. Please advice

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Sauber, Aug 28, 2012.


  1. Sauber

    Sauber

    May 30, 2011
    Denmark
    I recently got hold of two JBL K140´s because you guys speak so highly of them. Now i am looking to build a cab for it.

    A little background first:
    I play in a 60´s Bluesrock/country band, and i will be playing ann old P w/flats through a SF Bassman 100. So need some sensitivity from this cab, but first and foremost that heavenly sound.:bassist:
    I like the open sound of vintage 15´s and i don´t need super deep Fearful lowend, but i do like some push and fatness to my sound, and the bassman can only give so much.

    I have run it through Winisd, and found the following:
    A cab of 120-140 litres tuned to 50Hz gives flat responce down to 80Hz and an F3 of about 60Hz. Would this be a good choice, or should i aim for something bigger/smaller/lower/higher?

    I have read all i could find on talkbass, and some like the big EBS(not the brand) cab, and others recommend a tiny 4cu.ft. cab, so i am looking to hear all of your opinions and the reason therefore.

    Regards
     
  2. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
  3. Sauber

    Sauber

    May 30, 2011
    Denmark
    Thanks alot. I haven´t seen that document before.
    Could you please elaborate, what cabinets do your JBL´s sit in and what are the differences in sound?
     
  4. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
    I have put K140's in old Kustom 215's, old Sunn 215's, Traynor 215's, etc. To me, they always have a very melodic, midrangey tone, with a nice crisp top end. I have one mounted in a Roland DB 700 combo, which is probably a little undersized for it, but, with a little eq tweaking, I can get the Jaco tone on my Jazz bass, no problem. I have used all sorts of bass amps with them, and , as long as you don't get too volume happy, they break up very nicely. You might want to pm JohnK, who is the JBL king here on TB, and has made his own 215 cabs , and also can probably tell you more about building your own. He loves K140's in old Sunn cabs, IIRC.
     
  5. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
    Almost forgot, I started my own K140 thread some time ago ! There are a couple of clips of me playing a K140 loaded Kustom, tuckn roll cab with a Kustom 200 head and a P Bass. I was going for a Duck Dunn type of tone in the studio, and the K140's did not let me down.

    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/those-sweet-jbl-k140s-869504/
     
  6. nysbob

    nysbob

    Sep 14, 2003
    Cincinnati OH
    I'd put them in single cabs for portability and flexibility. That's what I did with my K 145s anyway.

    I've had plenty of 2x15 boxes and loved them, but at age 56 I don't want to schlepp one anymore.
     
  7. Sauber

    Sauber

    May 30, 2011
    Denmark
    Tanks again.
    I think i will stick with a single cab. I just prefer that aproach.

    So guys, keep all them suggestions coming. I would love to hear some specific ideas and why they would rock.
    Are you out there JohnK? :)
     
  8. D.M.N.

    D.M.N. (O))))

    Oct 6, 2008
    Los Angeles, CA
    My suggestion is to email Conrad Sundholm (google Conrad amps, he has contact info on there), and for like $25 buy the plans for the Sunn 200s cabinet, plus photos of cabinet buils and a material list. That's what I did with my K140s (although I built the bigger brother, the 2000s cabinet). In my opinion, K140s and those Sunn cabs are just a divine creation. I have yet to make an amp or bass sound bad through them, simply degrees of awesome. I run a Sunn 2000s head and a Bassman 300 into mine, and the sound is simply huge, full, with a crisp, defined and sometimes biting high end with raunchy mids and fat lows.

    Oh, and if this project falls through and you ever want to get those silly old speakers off your hands let me know. I'd be GLAD to, uh, dispose of them for you...
     
  9. Sauber

    Sauber

    May 30, 2011
    Denmark
    Thanks D.M.N. I have just read through your 2000s build thread, and i must say i am tempted. My only concern is that the 2000s cab i simply to big for the gigs i play. We almost always have P.A. support. The 200s would be a good choice if not for the 24 inch width. My bassman (26") will be hanging over the sides, and i just don´t like the look of that. But i will definitely concider the big cab.

    In the mean time please keep leaving your comments. And thanks to you all!
     
  10. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
  11. The E140 and K140 are very different animals.
    My JBL T/S data is the June, 2001 release.
    The JBL enclosure guide gives generic dimensions, but the K14x series is not included.

    For the K140-8, the Flat alignment is 1.22 cuft, Fb=58.5, F3=77.4
    You will get a bit more bottom from QB3, at 1.51 cuft, Fb=55.5, F3=71.9 Hz.
    Each K140 displaces about 0.2 cuft for your final calculations.

    This is a very interesting driver in the QB3 alignment.
    At full rated power (150w) it does not run out of Xmax until 40 Hz.
    One should not push hard below the Fb anyway, so this is icing on the cake.
    It hits 121 SPL at full power.
    Typical for JBL, the 41 Hz SPL, is down some -12dB from the flat region.

    For my playing style, I would take these over E140 any day.
    Good luck with your new project.
     
  12. I like my modded 2-15 Fender Showman cab w/two D140Fs, the predecessor to the K140s. Bill Fitzmaurice mentioned in another thread that the T/S parameters are essentially identical except that the Ks have greater power handling.

    The showman cab is like a shallow version of the build JohnK_10 did here that was linked above. I put in two 4 inch ports at about 4 inches in length (that's 100 mm in each direction ;)) for a Vb of around 48 Hz. I use either a BF Showman amp or a GK800RB and it has tone, low end, and power for days. Easily keeps up w/loud drummers and guitarists slinging twin-style amps. Not first choice for metal or dub style playing, though, but it's definitely old school that's been modernized in terms of output and performance.

    Edit: if I were in your shoes I'd definitely look at doing JohnK_10s build, it's easy, sounds great, and is lightweight, esp if you're using arauco or poplar plywood (1/2" or 12 mm thick).
     
  13. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Oddly enough, the D&K models were very similar - paint color may have been the only real difference. There was a reason for that involving GSA contract pricing - rumor was that JbL needed a new part number so they could raise the prince of the drivers they sold to the gov't under the GSA. So they changed the color, the model number and the price... Having been through some gov't sales support I find it believable...

    The E series was something entirely differnt and lost the sweetness in favor of power handling.

    I had D140's in a variety of boxes. You stuffed the more or less according to taste. Personaly I would build something you find cosmetically appropriate, port it using the precision ports flared kits. In the interest of portability I would size the box in the 6.2 cu/ft gross volume range which should be something like 5.8 net. 2 ports and stuffing to taste. You won't be that far off the 200S or the Kustom 200 cabs. As you're only putting a hundred watts in, you are a little safer...

    I'm currently finishing off a similar box to power up with a Music Man RD100. It seems to be a nice compromise size wise... Sounds nice with 3015's installed and Ihave yet to mount the port flares... I could totally see D or K 140's in there if it weren't for the weight.
     
  14. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
    Here's a T/S from JBL ( 2007 ) that has the K140 info. Scroll down to almost the bottom of the page. It also has the E140, and the not often encountered M series.
     
  15. Sauber

    Sauber

    May 30, 2011
    Denmark
    @bgavin:
    Yes i have seen you post those numbers before. It goes completely against my logic that a 215 cab should only be 2.5-3cu.ft. But i in no way doubt your info. Actually that is also what Winisd suggests to begin with. My question is, how will it sound? Compare to say an 810 or other known cabs? And will it give me roomfilling bass? It seems like a high F3. Remember i am only asking because i´m a noob and i want to learn. And of course also because i want to end up with a killer cab!

    On a side note:
    I am running Winisd pro Beta an i can´t seem to get an SPL graf or an excursion graf. Can anyone help me out?
     
  16. One "haulmark" of a JBL cab is the lack of huge size. :D
    JBL are instrument drivers are designed specifically as high efficiency, low Qts drivers.
    Read: Loud + Small.
    My E155 18" lives in a very small box.

    My bassist plays on a single E140 for our restaurant / bar gigs.
    He gets very nice tone from a J with half-rounds and an LM-III head.
    When I play my SR5HH through it, the response drops like a rock from E down to low B.
    His sons built the box for him, and I have not measured it.

    Lots of players get a phat big sound from 4-strings, played around the low A range.
    55 to 125 Hz produces a big-sounding bass note.
    A lot of strength at 31 Hz rattles the beer bottles and generates a lot of mud indoors.

    My little S2010 project generates the same response curve as the K140, but at a much more modest level.
    Combined with an Alpha 6a, MP3 music has a rich full bodied bass.

    WinISD: use the Help function to get the correct order for entering data into WinISD.
    The trick with WinISD is the order of entering data.
    Create your own new driver, and enter what you have from the JBL 2007 T/S sheet.
    WinISD will fill in the blanks, as there is sufficient info in the T/S data sheet.

    Everybody needs a cab building refresher, so build a prototype out of MDF for one K140.
    Install some insulation and take it for a ride. See if you want to build a pair, or two 1x15 (my preference).
    You can make it about 30% smaller if you want to hassle with FiberFill stuffing while keeping the vent free of stuffing.
     
  17. JBL recommend 4 cu.ft. per E140, that's a fairly big cab!
     
  18. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    That's about "proper" size for many 15's. Also a common size for many 410's....go figure.:p
     
  19. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
    I have two of them in a cab that's a little over 7 cubic ft. Just a side note here about a 115 vs 215, I find it alot easier to move a 215, than two 115's. My 215's are all on casters, and they are an easy " tilt over/shove in " load for any hatchback type vehicle. Also good for long load ins from parking lots. Going up stairs? Not so much, definitely need help there. If you haul one or two 115 JBL loaded cabs, you are going to need some type of hand truck. E140's weigh around 20 lbs, K140's around 15.
     

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