Bypass protection Circuits / Seeking intact deep bass and Infrasound

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by MadScience, Apr 15, 2019.


  1. MadScience

    MadScience Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2019
    Bass Land
    Hi, i'm new to the form and this is my first post. Its a niche subject and i'm hopping for some guidance from some of you with experience.

    I'm a soundsystem junkie and looking to get into effects pedals.
    My problem is the high pass circuits built into effects pedals and such that protect your gear from DC signals and very low frequencies... because that is what i'm after. For me the bass and guitar started as just an extra toy to go with my sound system, then it all spiraled out of control from there. It all started when I saw an Ibanez GAX30 used for cheap. It felt right in my hands and then it all spiraled out of control from there as I started making it play better; tinkering with the setup, swapping out the nut & saddle, boring out space for a 5th pickup and bigger electronic cavity to try and do all the wiring mods at once. (But i'm learning to play in the process)

    Here is some background on what i'm up to.
    I play through a homebuilt hotrod home theater setup with a DIY giant low tuned subwoofer capable of playing almost a whole octave lower than the bass you hear in movies and music; the mains for it are their own beast and out of scope for now.

    With a shimmed nut and a really high action I tune a Bass that i have been working on as low as I can while still being somewhat playable; which is to about 26Hz which works out to a G#0. Imagine those car audio bass videos with the hair tricks but with a Bass instead. That's all fine and dandy but when i plug in a multi effects pedal like the Line6 FX100 it conservatively filters out all the low end rendering the subwoofer useless. It is even very noticeable with just the guitar. Basically there is a lot of beautiful low end to be had if you don't filter it out and play through a capable system.

    I find myself looking into how to build oldschool analog spring reverb and such but there's got to be a cheaper way and i'm also not opposed to modifying the circuitry of an existing pedal if it is simple enough.

    And finally the question.
    Is there a commercial multi-effects pedal out there that can handle the deepest of bass or has a protection circuit that can be easily bypassed? (Like swapping out the coupling capacitors in an amp)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  2. Sometimes I read a post, catch a cool buzz. Then come back a few times just to keep the contact high. Man, dunno what concoction you dosing but step away from the apparatus before it dogs anymore of your brayne sales and floderhobibinacedhuttypopoted. Yi snark da flootin vs habbinda floddreeck?
     
    Beheroth, Bassamatic and thumbslapper like this.
  3. thumbslapper

    thumbslapper Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    San Francisco
    I tuned my 6 string with a low C# (below low B, something around 21hz) for a bit - def pretty cool (I played thru a bag end elf system that could handle it).

    Don't buy guitar pedals, buy bass pedals. Many guitar pedals have built in low cut filters because low/subsonic frequencies aren't nice to tube amps (in fact having a high pass filter - even if you keep it at 20 or 30 hz - is a pretty good idea). Its also better to buy a few high quality single purpose pedals then 1 mediocre multi effects unit.
     
  4. MadScience

    MadScience Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2019
    Bass Land
    This is what i'm on about, what pedals do you use? I've got to read up on that bag end unit. Can traditional pedals handle a strong 20HZ signal without distorting the output?

    Do you have any solid recommendations for a Reverb or an Octave up/down pedal that will be easy to tinker with and modify?

    Ideally i'll want to make it perform full rage with an extended low end just south of 20 hz. I have all the high pass controls I need between 2 separate EQs and a dbx120X-DS sub-harmonic synthesizer that everything runs through. Bi-amped mains and completely separate sub controls provide endless flexibility to blend in all the added low end.

    When i slap the strings with the palm of my hand I still want to send huge globs of 15-25HZ signal straight to the amp. This isn't supposed to be practical for gigging or anything, it'll just be for playing around with low frequencies.
     
  5. Jim C

    Jim C I believe in the trilogy; Fender, Stingray, + G&L Supporting Member

    Nov 29, 2008
    Bethesda, MD
    20Hz is not audible as it it subsonic
    You probably don't have a cabinet that would reproduce this freq.
    Many will use a HPF to filter everything below X frequency; I usually set mine to approx. 40 Hz. to keep the mix clean and the speakers happy
     
  6. RobTheRiot

    RobTheRiot

    Aug 31, 2016
    las Vegas, nv
    I can’t help you on your gear quest, OP, but welcome to Talkbass.

    Sounds like one crazy rig you got going - I can see that being a lot of fun to mess with.

    Hopefully someone will be along shortly who can help you on your ultimate low end quest!
     
  7. Alien8

    Alien8

    Jan 29, 2014
    Look at Meris. The Mercury7 and Enzo both produce some pretty low frequencies and sound awesome on synths. Put it this way; I use a cab sim to sound like a bass, but turning the cab sim off, I sound like a synth.

    Speaking of which, do you have a synth?
     
  8. thumbslapper

    thumbslapper Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    San Francisco
    I have a TC Sub N Up, & its a perfectly competent octave pedal, and the -2 octave might come in handy. You might like the Cali76 Bass compressor as it has a HPF in the sidechain which makes it kind of act like a low end tightness control - if you don't want your low end to overtake your sound you can lower the HPF (which makes the compressor more sensitive to low end), or you can raise the HFP which will make it not compress the low end - which is what it sounds like you want.

    Using a synth is a great idea as well, some of the low end they can produce is bowel shaking. Hell I used to use a old tube HP sine wave generator & a gate (with the kick signal going into the gate detect circuitry) to produce some really low end material when mixing...

    -carl
     
  9. MadScience

    MadScience Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2019
    Bass Land
    Let's neglect this caveat. Physics dictate that the lower you go the more air you need move and the fletcher munson curves dictate that the lower you go the less perception you will have of the sound. For this unique application consider a purpose built cabinet volume 5X the vas of the driver and over 20+ dB EQ of gain in the infrasonic range. The cabinet uses a single 6" port and is capable of rising response down to 21 Hz before a sharp drop off and F3 of 18 Hz. This is a essentially a musical bass whistle.
     
  10. MadScience

    MadScience Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2019
    Bass Land
    Thanks Carl,
    That pedal sounds like what i am looking for, i'll look into it. Once i finally get what i'm after and move into a bigger place I've got plans to scale up the system to drive 2 monster subs to the max with 10" ports, talk about bowel shaking.
     
  11. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    True classic soundsystems manage their deep lows by having a huge quantity of speakers (these days available high powered amps too)...Most of the people here in bassland won't really know what you're referring to in terms of 'soundsystem culture'. With home built verbs and delays, it sounds like you're getting into Tubby territory, because he did a bunch of that.

    What made it all work in the dancehall (or the field, for that matter) was a 5hitton of speakers. More speakers means you can have volume with less excursion. So, you can do that with a bass guitar setup, but you'll need to really have more speakers and drive them less hard.
     
  12. MadScience

    MadScience Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2019
    Bass Land
    You are 100% correct. The key to achieving the same effect on a smaller scale in a confined room is to ensure the midbass, mids, and highs are leveled appropriately and do not overpower the deep lows which has been accomplished. However this medium sized setup has a practical low end of about 25Hz with the port doing most of the work to limit excursion.

    My intention here is to gain advice on getting typical effects pedals to work with such a setup without filtering off the the low end i've worked so hard to achieve.

    Who is Tubby? It sounds like someone before me may have been trying something similar that i may have missed when scouring the fourm.
     
  13. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Most likely you won't want effects on your deep lows anyway. The super easy answer to this is to use a crossover pedal and split your signal. Only apply your effects to the stuff that's in the high pass and keep your lows and deep lows clean. There are a handful of options for the actual pedal.

    King Tubby is most known these days for being an innovator of dub. His dubplates and mixes are still seen as being classic...and in my mind the best that were ever done. The origins of dub are also the origins of the modern sound system. I won't go into the details of how and why that all unfolded in Jamaica, but while he was a genious and foundation of dubmixing he was also someone who drove sound system culture. He built his own system, amps, crossovers often innovating along the way.

    King Tubby - Wikipedia

    A beginner's guide to King Tubby
     
    davidpolycotene and DosiYanarchy like this.
  14. MadScience

    MadScience Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2019
    Bass Land
    Woa, King Tubby is legendary and i'm definitely in his territory. Thanks for the big tip. I'd never head about him and he's got some great stuff. I didn't realize Jamaica was a hot bed for this kind of sound system building and drove a whole culture behind it. I need to research his life and work. I've seen pictures and videos of these systems but dismissed it as a hodgepodge of amps and speakers thrown together to look impressive based on what materials were available. Living in a music town I often think about a using the same scientific approach I use to build my own systems on the road and building a system for for public use (But I wont quit my day job.)

    However, I do plan to use effects on the dedicated Low Frequency channel. I'll need Tubby like understanding to predict how effects circuits will handle decreasingly low waves and if it will cause dramatic group delay issues the longer and longer waves. The ultimate goal is to DUB music on the fly adding or restoring thunderous lows with dramatic dynamic range to regular music that has been compressed to oblivion for mass consumption. AC/DCs for those about to rock needs to shake the room you are listening in and to adding a touch of reverb or other effects to the thunder interests me. I imagine guitar/bass pedals work similar to my oldschool sub-harmonic synthesizer and will be a useful tool (and something i'm not afraid to damage by tinkering).

    In the past I would DUB songs in Audacity to be played specifically on the Sound System (Tubby did this too) by separating, modifying, then remixing the tracks with an added low track dropped down an octave and boosted to. But now i just want to be able to plug in any audio source and do the same on the fly (It is taking Tubby style learning).

    Thank you sir for pointing me in this direction so I stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

    The Bass & Guitar are used as scientific tools in this and as toys along the way.
     
  15. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Yep. DJ and Soundsystem Culture come out of Jamaica originally. When we talk about inna tha dancehall...that dancehall was usually a field or empty lot outside. And when it comes to reproducing lows outside you need big systems and lots of power. There's a ton of political/cultural stuff tied up in it too, but the original DJ's and their systems were the start of much of remix culture (spinning two tables with the same song, one version and one single side or a dub take and the single back and forth), and the original toasting and chatting...which when it moved to NYC became the earliest of rap/hiphop.

    I honestly don't know what you're going to run into doing effects in the subsonics. I wish you good luck. I can say that I've played a few shows with Mad Professor, and it was amazing to see him with clones of a lot of the original Studio One multitracks on stage...live dub mixing with racks of effects and on the fly seat of the pants artistry. I sat backstage and watched him ride the boards and racks from the best seat in the house.
     
    davidpolycotene likes this.
  16. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Jul 27, 2021

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.