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CA9+VTB-201S -vs- DB750

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by g4string, Mar 21, 2009.


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  1. g4string

    g4string

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    I used my CA9/Demeter VTB-201S rig last night......I forgot how heavy this b****** really is. The guts are in a 6 space "Road Ready" ATA rack. Here is what is in my rack;

    CA9
    Demeter VTBP-201S
    Korg rack mount tuner
    Furman power conditioner
    "blank" panel

    I am estimating this thing to weigh close to 85lbs. I am a young guy (32yo).......but when I need help schleping my gear, I know it's too heavy. The problem is, I love the way it sounds. I normally use this with an Acme B4. As you could imagine, this rig is a ball buster. However, due to the weight of the rack - it is not a gigging rig. It's main purpose is big stage and practice space duty only. I use an Epifani UL410 and a LMII as my gigging/portable rig.

    I love the sound of the UL+LM rig. However, it is not ball busting raw like the CA9. I was thinking of maybe replacing the CA9 rig with a 750. If I did this, I would downsize the 6 space rack to a 4 space. I think by cutting the rack size to 4 spaces and only racking a 750 + tuner, I could have a 4 space rig that weighed ~65lbs. That shaves ~20lbs. Not to mention the a 4 space rack is easier to manipulate. A couple of questions;


    How do the two rigs compare (tone, speed, high/low end, etc)
    How well will the 750 play with an Acme B4
    Would you sell the CA9/Demeter for a 750
     
  2. g4string

    g4string

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    wow, it only took 3 hours to get behind page 1
     
  3. svtb15

    svtb15 Banned

    Mar 22, 2004
    Austin,TX - McKinney,TX - NY,NY, - Nashville,TN
    I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
    there is nothing like a CA9.. well maybe a crown Macro.
    The 750 is a great amp however i dont think it would have the smooth top and mid clarity that the Demeter/ CA creates... from what i remember the 750 is a bit woolly
     
  4. g4string

    g4string

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    Just checked the Road Ready site.......my 6 space rack is 40lbs. This puts my rig well over 100lbs:eek:

    I tried a PLX 2402........NOT the same as CA9.......sorry QSC Bob.

    I am thinking that if I keep the rig that maybe I should put the CA9 in a separate 2 space rack......and the other light stuff in a 4 space rack:meh:
     
  5. svtb15

    svtb15 Banned

    Mar 22, 2004
    Austin,TX - McKinney,TX - NY,NY, - Nashville,TN
    I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
    I agree. .. even though the QSC is nice.. it is not a CA9..... CA9 is in a class all its own... its a monster....

    100 pounds is a little over the edge unless you had a crew and a fork lift.. one large tour i did many years ago , my rack weighed 375 pounds.. but we had a crew and a fork lift... i now play lightweights GB amps...

    Your idea to break up the rack is good... but i just saw this in another thread today http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522864
     
  6. g4string

    g4string

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    In theory the Odyssey is a good idea.......but it doesnt help getting the rack out of your trunk, up/ down stairs, and on/off your amp. Plus, I have never felt good about rolling electrical gear in a case like that due to the vibration it is exposed to while rolling around.....I am sure it is minimal.......

    But your right, I think it might be best to just break up the rig. The CA9 is a monster.......NTM, as far as I know - I have the only speak-on CA9 in the US. I had my US CA9 converted to speak-ons in lieu of the naner-plugs
     
  7. Big String

    Big String Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2000
    Northwest Indiana
    Hey G
    I never play any Acme's but I can tell you the DB750 is not a good match for the UL, at least the Series I, and I love the DB750 sounds great with my AE410. The Carvin B1500 is very good match for the UL if you're intersted.
    Dean
     
  8. Red Planet

    Red Planet

    May 29, 2005
    Atlanta
    g4string I think you've seen my PLX 1804 Thread.

    For stereo operation the 1804 exceeds the Crest at least in the Specs (havent heard one yet).

    I'm struggling with all this myself.

    Looking at the Specs it appears to me you need at least a PLX3102 if your briding into 8 or 4 ohms. Maybe even a 3602.

    I know how you feel running a CA9 into a high powered 4x10, there is just no substitue for Godzilla Balls!

    Man my rig sounds good but dang is the whole thing heavy. I've got some serious good tones happening but restling that baby around is some kind of awful. I know the Marcus Miller Pre is large but I could not see ever going to anything smaller what with EQ, the Bass Intesifier thingy, and all the rest. If I could get the CA9 umph out of the 1804 I'll be a happy camper. If not I'm gonna be doing some serious bitching. Then it's on to rethinking Cabs.
     
  9. triplelutz

    triplelutz

    Nov 8, 2006
    Aguilar, Elixir, Dunlop
    My rig is

    Bass>VT Bass>ToneHammer>Demeter vtbp201s>DB 750= pure tone!

    The vt is for some grit, the tone hammer is for tone control, the Demeter is for clean tube (set flat) and the DB for power and dark warmth (set flat).

    Totally in love with that rig.
     
  10. g4string

    g4string

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX

    Dean, I have read some stuff about the AE410+DB750 as well as the UL+DB750. I am aware the good/bad 750 combos. My dilemma is whether or not to ditch this heavy b**** or keep her??? Its nice to here from you..........let me know of any Chicago area GTG's.




    From my posts in your thread, I think you know how I feel about heavy rigs:smug:

    I used to swap out the CA9 for a PLX 2402 in the rack........the 2402 is not the same as CA9.
     
  11. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    +1

    I've not tried my DB750 with anything but my Schroeder 410R, but I will say that the tone of the DB750, to my ears, is far more suited to a tonally focused cab. Something modern and wide like an Acme, Epifani UL, etc. seems like an inappropriate match for the DB750. Mine has had a tube swap for some NOS RCA's that lowered the gain and wooliness a bit and cleared up the mids and high end, but even after all of that I still wouldn't pair it with a modern voiced cab.

    I absolutely adore my DB750 and wouldn't trade it for anything, but for your application there are probably amps that are more suited to the task. The Gallien-Krueger 2001RB might be a good choice for a similar amount of power and punch as the DB750, but in a package that's more friendly to a modern voiced cabinet.
     
  12. g4string

    g4string

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    I think at this point my best bet is to split the rack.......rack the CA9 by itself and the other stuff by itself.
     
  13. Red Planet

    Red Planet

    May 29, 2005
    Atlanta
    Are you talking in Bridged Mono Mode at 4 ohms?
     
  14. Red Planet

    Red Planet

    May 29, 2005
    Atlanta
    Yes that is allways an option.
     
  15. g4string

    g4string

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    Doesnt matter which mode. The CA9 will kill a PLX bridged or stereo. I know others will argue a power amp is a power amp, but the "switching" technology in the PLX amps just doesn't compare to the "old school" transformer technology in amps like the CA9. A PLX will not deliver the tight articulated punch and massive transients like a CA9

    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219591&highlight=ca9%plx
     
  16. Red Planet

    Red Planet

    May 29, 2005
    Atlanta
    I agree the CA9 is one of the Meanest Amps out there.

    You know you gonna get the Gain Match Police on you.:eek:

    Not that I havent had em on me.:D
     
  17. MIJ-VI

    MIJ-VI Banned Supporting Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    :eek:
     
  18. +1 to the comments about the DB750 not being a good thing with wide, smooth cabs like the Acme and Epi410UL.

    This is going to sound a bit strange, but you might want to try the Carvin B1500. It puts out the WUMP, is about 30 pounds and three rack spaces, and has the power and the EQ to really work well with the Acme cabs. They are on sale for under $700, with a 10 day no questions asked return policy.

    That head for the larger gigs, and the LMII for the 'normal' ones is a great one-two punch IMO.

    Will it put out all the wump of the CA9... probably not. But, it will sound HUGE and very good IMO and IME.
     
  19. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I wouldn't be so sure. I've done enough sound engineer gigs with whatever amp racks were provided to not consider most of the pro power amps available as anything more than commodities with various feature sets, one amp of a size and similar rating not that different than another. I don't get the CA9 mystique here at talkbass (evidently a gazillion SR providers and engineers don't either since they are using a lot of different amplifiers); when I used them they didn't seem any more capable than a lot of others as long as one was gain-stage savvy.
     
  20. Mo'Phat

    Mo'Phat Supporting Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    San Diego, CA, USA
    My humble opinion: Not enough power in the 750 for an Acme Low B4.

    Also, since you're digging the Demeter Pre, you might not dig the Aguilar quite so much.

    Lastly, I'd go with splitting up the power amp from the rest of your rack. The bonus is that you can carry it more ergonomically (ie: like a briefcase) and if you ever go into the studio or straight to the board and don't need the power amp, you can leave it at home.

    I would highly suggest considering ditching the power conditioner and going for a very good surge strip. There's one school of thought that rack power conditioners drop the incoming volts/amps/magic pixie juju and starve the power amp of much needed 'monster balls'.

    Then you could have just two two-space racks. For what it's worth, I just have a simple 4 SKB rack that I've used for years with my preamp, power amp, and compressor.
     

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