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Cab build question.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by creis2, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. creis2


    Nov 11, 2011
    Cambridge, MA
    Like many on this forum, I'm on a constant search to find the perfect tone from a cab. I've done several builds with LDS, and he's always built what I wanted, but what I want always changes.

    He recently built me a sealed 810 with FAITAL PRO 10FE200's. Based on a vintage Ampeg Flatback. I've been playing it for almost a year, and I think she's a keeper for my large cab needs.

    I've always had some trouble finding a mid sized cab I'm happy with.

    I recently sold one of my LDS 410's to a friend without the drivers, so I have 4 nice 8 ohm Beta 10a's sitting here.

    Here's what I'm considering:

    1. A 310 cab, based off a Dr. Bass RX 310. I played one that was loaded with beta 10a's that my friend owns. It sounded great. From what my friend told me (but he told me not to quote him, bc he isn't an expert so I'm taking it only as a suggestion) that the beta's are big box drivers. 3 in a 410 sized box will do better than 4 in a 410 sized box. Additionally, he thinks it might also have to do with each of the 3 drivers will be pushed harder than a box with 4. That drivers might sound better when being pushed.

    2.A sealed 410 using the Beta's, to more or less have a mini Berg NV. I know a lot of people say the beta's are not good with sealed cabs, but I've played a sealed 610 with them and it sounded great. Don from LDS said they will do good as well.

    I've read on the forum that sealed 10 cabs tend to sound better in the mix when they have 6+ drivers. Is this true?

    For a vintage, tweeterless box to go with my vintage tone, what would work best?

    I understand cabs have their limitations and that trying to have a single 12 keep up with a bunch of Mesa half stacks isn't going to happen. That's why I have a larger cab and don't mind moving around if I need to. But since I'm relocating to NYC next year, I need to downsize down to 2 cabs because of space. I have a big one, now I need a smaller one. Most of my projects are lofi indie rock gigs, playing with a couple fender tube combos. Nothing stupid loud.

    I'm also not really interested in a fearful or similar at this time. I know they get suggested a lot, but I would like to use my drivers at this time.
  2. The problem with using odd numbers of off the shelf drivers is the total impedance of the cabinet. Your idea of a three driver cabinet will result in an impedance of 2.67Ω. That's below the minimum for many SS amps and tube amps won't like the impedance either.
  3. why not two 210's?
  4. Beta10a is a nice driver, but has an EBP=102 meaning a vented box.
    Yes, you can stuff it into a sealed box, but that is not what it is designed for.
    This driver requires a substantial sized box to reach its design performance.

    The Berg drivers are, no doubt, proprietary designs.
    The Eminence OEM catalog is quite extensive, and offers many variants of each retail driver type.

    Remember the big three: Size, Extension, Sensitivity. You can pick any two.
    If you require a small box (Size), you sacrifice either Sensitivity (loud) or Extension (deep).
    A pair of JBL E140 will make a smokin' amount of noise in a small box, but no bass extension.
  5. will33


    May 22, 2006
    The Beta is fairly similar to what's in the NV610, so if you like that sound, there it is.

    Using 3 drivers is going to limit you to having 2ohm stable SS amps only.

    If it were me, I'd make a pair of 16ohm 210's out of them and make them so you can latch them together with wheels on the bottom of one and a handle on top of the other. This would give you one taller, narrower unit to move through doorways or on subways or busses, etc.

    I did a similar thing with my pair of 112's and turns out it's pretty handy.
  6. creis2


    Nov 11, 2011
    Cambridge, MA
    That's a good idea. I'm thinking of going with (2) sealed 210's. I can also throw a switch on the back of one of them to switch the impedance to use as a standalone for small gigs.

  7. will33


    May 22, 2006
    Older, crappy pic, but you get the idea...


    I was too cheap to buy a stainless towel bar so I just built the handle along with the cab. 4" wheels make it roll easy over thresholds, etc. You can pull it over just about anything and even push it over small stuff. It's a little bit amazing what it does going from a 3" to a 4" wheel.

    I'm fairly tall at 6'2" and I do have to hunch over a little bit to maneuver this one. A pair of 210's with the drivers all up and down in a vertical line would end up at the perfect height to serve as it's own dolly.

    I robbed the latches off an old Grundorf rack case I had. 3 of them makes the load solid if you position them just right. One on each side like that and one centered on the back. Use sturdy latches and make sure the wheels are aligned straight with the cab and it's all good.

    Anyway....that's what I did. Works pretty well. The cabs individually are easy to sling around with one hand.
  8. I don't see why a vertical 410 consisting of two sealed 210s with betas wouldn't work, wouldn't they need to be bigger sealed cabs though? what about the alpha 10s?
  9. creis2


    Nov 11, 2011
    Cambridge, MA
    I already have the beta's, but I don't mind selling them.

    I'm loving my 810 so much, I was considering having don do the exact thing, but a sealed 410 with the Faital 10fe200's.

    Sealed 410's don't seem to be very popular, is there a reason?
  10. creis2


    Nov 11, 2011
    Cambridge, MA
    Don really got the Classic Flatback/NV610 thing down with my 810. What would be the best approach to do this with a 410?
  11. will33


    May 22, 2006
    Well, the comb filtering from the driver placement is part of the inherent tone of an 810, so, maybe stagger them a bit?

    Putting them in a single, vertical line would be a technically better design, but it would sound a little cleaner/clearer than your other cabs.....a little less "flavor".

    I can't believe I'm saying to consider some sub-par design, but, there it is. :D
  12. creis2


    Nov 11, 2011
    Cambridge, MA
    Do you mean a design kind of like this?:

  13. that makes sense, I don't think they'd sound bad, I just think they'd have a very big hump in the low mids and drop off pretty quickly in the lows in a smaller box, the betas seem better suited to tuned boxes, at least for hi-fi use. My warwick 410 apparently has some OEM drivers similar to the betas in it, and it's ported.

    Also - sealed 410s aren't too popular because porting helps to increase sensitivity in the low end, which is kind of important for bass. There are sealed 410s out there, but sealed 810s seem more prominent - probably because there are 8 drivers, so there's more clean headroom, plus it's "traditional" and can appeal to more purists, and lastly ported cabinets tend to be larger than sealed ones, so a ported 810, while they do exist, is less common. A 410 on the other hand has less drivers, and is going to be smaller based on the virtue of that alone, so if it is perhaps 20%-30% bigger, then it's an easier squeeze.

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