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cabinet dilema

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by mclaud, Jan 21, 2002.


  1. mclaud

    mclaud Guest

    Oct 25, 2000
    portugal, lisbon
    hi!

    i have a dilema here!!

    i own a warwick quad VI (600 watt @ 4 ohm) and a 411 pro cabinet (4x10, 600 watt @ 8 ohm) and i'm tired of carrying it, too big! i'm thinking in buying a new cabinet, and here's my dilema: SWR goliath jr III (350 watt @ 8 ohms, 105 dB SPL @ 1W1M (-3dB @ 45Hz and 15KHz)) or Glockenklang DOUBLE 2 x 12 (500 Watt @ 4ohms, 100 dB/1 W/1 m (36 Hz - 18 KHz)).

    what's your opinion!!
     
  2. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    Can you try before you buy? If you can, do so and let your ears decide. Specs can be useful sometimes, but what they won't do is tell you whether you'd like the sound or not...
     
  3. I agree with Oysterman. Use your ears, and you'll be able to make cool mp3 files like the one listed in Oyster's signature. Good stuff Oyster! (love the Castlevania one too)

    Without hearing the two cabs it's really too tough to call, especially since I don't know what kind of sound you're interested in. A little more information to that effect might give us a better chance of helping you out.
     
  4. mclaud

    mclaud Guest

    Oct 25, 2000
    portugal, lisbon
    hi again1

    i know that ir's better to listen before buying, but i don't have the chance of trying the glockenklang before buiyng it.

    i like the sound very clear and bright like SWR, i play kind of funk/rock style, but i'm afraid that the goliath jr. III won't be loud enough.
     
  5. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    Well, given the sensitivity ratings, the SWR will probably be louder than the Glock... and if the SWR isn't loud enough, the Glock won't be either.
     
  6. CrawlingEye

    CrawlingEye Member

    Mar 20, 2001
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    SWR Goliath 3's are REALLY heavy.
    They're small, but weigh a ton.

    My friend Doug played a gig with his, and he needed help carrying it, so I helped him, and even with two people, it was killing my arm. Then again, we had to carry it a block away, so I could be mistaken...
     
  7. Matthias

    Matthias

    May 30, 2000
    Vienna, Austria
    CrawlingEye, I think he mentioned the Goliath Jr, this should be lighter.

    I own a Double and can tell you it's a fairly loud cab with a very strong and well defined low frequency response - it even outperforms my previous Ampeg SVR-215 in this regard.

    I don't know the Goliath jr, but I can't imagine that it is louder - and you have to consider the lower power output of the amp into an 8 Ohm cab.
    But I guess the Double will have a hard time keeping up with a 410.

    Regarding specs: I don't trust them - someone here at TB reported that an Ampeg 410 rated 97dB@1W/1m was equally loud as a SWR Goliath rated 105dB...

    Matthias
     
  8. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    D'oh! I really missed that, didn't I? :)
     
  9. CrawlingEye

    CrawlingEye Member

    Mar 20, 2001
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    Mathias, have you considered that a 2x15" = 30" and a 4x10" = 40"?

    That very well may have a good deal to do with your "4x10 being louder than 2x15" :)

    Speaker area counts for more than people think.
     
  10. It's driver displacement that counts.

    Every driver has a Thiele/Small parameter "Sd" that specifies the square area of the speaker piston. The surround is not included as part of the piston. Multiply Sd * Xmax to get the total volume of air displaced by the driver at maximum movement.

    Xmax is the limiting factor for how much SPL a driver generates at the lowest frequencies. Movement increases 4x for every octave lower at the same loudness. This eats up Xmax very quickly. Thermal limitation (wattage before meltdown) is the SPL limiting factor in the high range.

    When comparing square areas, it takes roughly (2.5) 10" drivers to get the same Sd as (1) 15" driver.
     
  11. Matthias

    Matthias

    May 30, 2000
    Vienna, Austria
    If you want to compare speaker surface area, you have to calculate with square inches:

    2*(15^2)*pi/4 = 353 sq. inch
    4*(10^2)*pi/4 = 314 sq. inch !!

    The Double I mentioned is a 2x12":

    2*(12^2)*pi/4 = 226 sq. inch

    As bgavin said, driver displacement plays an important role, also the other T/S parameters together with cab tuning.

    Speaker and cab design counts much more than people think ;)

    What I did not tell you about the Ampeg SVR-215 is that one speaker is back-firing and thus limited to frequencies below 300Hz (where sound waves are omni-directional) - I guess this makes it less loud than 'usual' 215 cabs. But it's still interesting that the 212 has more bottom.

    Matthias
     
  12. CrawlingEye

    CrawlingEye Member

    Mar 20, 2001
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    Wow. I didn't intend on getting that technical.

    I've always found that speakers(/cabs) with more speaker inches tend to be louder. There could (most and most likely is) more variables involved.

    I was simply stating what I've usually used for a rule of the thumb.

    I've always found that a 4x10 is louder than a 1x15. I've found that an 8x10 is louder than a 2x15.

    I've never played a 2x15, so I couldn't give a judgement on them, specifically. :)