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Cabinet Help

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DRN, Jan 16, 2003.

  1. DRN


    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Ok I have searched the threads and gathered as much info before I posted.

    I currently have (2) Eden 410 XLTS, each cabinet rated at 4 ohms, and an Eden WT-800.

    My problem is the Eden cabs sound very muddy on the low end.(you will see why later see tuning) I would like to tighten it up and have tried everything. I am ready to switch cabinets out. I heard the Eden cabs are low end muddy and another reason is I am tired of (2) 4 ohm cabs. I can not biamp etc.

    I am going to keep one of the 410's for small gigs but I need a main rig that kicks. I need to get some specific recommendations on cabinets based on the style of music I play the tuning I use and the examples of bassplayers tones that I like.

    Some background on me:

    I play a Warwick streamer 2 and a thumb bolt-on. Both are 5-strings tuned Low A, drop D, A-D-G

    Looking for a very tight low end
    I use a pick and also slap
    I play heavy odd time intricate music
    I like the tone of the bassist from Mudvayne
    My guitar player plays a 7-string guitar

    What do you think? 8-10 cabs, 4-10 and 1-15, 2-12 and 4-10, two 4-10 cabs but just not eden.
    (I am not a fan of the 2-10 cabs)
    Then what manufacturer would you recommend to acheive the impossible. Not worried about cost of cabs at this time. Just tone quality and loud loud loud.

    Thanks for all your input.
  2. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Can I ask a question or 2. When you use the 2 cabs together, do you normally stack one on top of the other?

    Also, how is the bottom end when you use the single 4x10?

    I have a gut feeling you may be struggling more with coupling than with low end hump. If anything Eden have a hump in the low-mids, not the bottoms.
  3. hands5


    Jan 15, 2003
    good 'ol USA/Tampa fla.
    I am using the same cabinets as you and my low mids are not muddy at all and I also play a 5 string as well (MM5,Tobias Basic 5).with the standard tuning BEADG.You have to remember that the tention on the string changes when you detune which can make the sound somewhat appear to be muddy.Again the bridge on your bass I assume is setup for the standard tuning so when you detune you lose some definition on the B string.You didnt mention what type of amp head that you are using ither.However I hope this helps you out.:eek:
  4. hands5


    Jan 15, 2003
    good 'ol USA/Tampa fla.
    I stand corrected you did mention the type of amp head that you are using.Sorry :( The next thing that you may would like to try is running a DI box into your rig I think this would clean up your signal then I think you could get a better handling on your EQing which would help you round you tone.
  5. DRN


    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    The cabs are stacked one on top of the other. As for just using a single 410 I have never tried this. Usually not loud enough.

    The Warwick streamer 2 has been set up to run in this tuning. (as best you can set it up) I do not change the tuning on this bass from song to song. I have different basses set up for different tunings. That way like you said you can set it up for the best possible tone and playability.
    If I tune standard it gets better but when I say muddy I should say not enough defination and alot of sub frequencies. I can not get rid of it. I have tried everything from p basses to lakelands, etc etc. Warwick sounded the closest to what I was looking for but still I can never clean up the low and low mids up. Mids and hi's sound ok but the lows suck.

    I even tried the Aguilar pre amp. Not the onboard but the DI style still the same thing. This goes for all my basses in all tunings. I have eq'd from top to bottom one eq at a time. If i get one to sound good the others sound like crap I can never get this rig to sound like it should. I also am pushing the WT800 to the max. I am talking slight clipping of the output signal when really rocking on the low B. This should sound like thunder and peoples hearts should be stopping but It is just not happening.
    Can you tell I am frustrated???? I just looked at how much I typed. It has been a very long day.

    Oh by the way I also play a Tobias 5 string as well. forgot to mention this.

    I will try anything so keep the sugestions flowing.

    Thanks for all your help and letting me vent.

  6. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.

    This should work. There are not many cabs out there that can go loud and low. Low A is very low and will make just about any cab sound muddy because its such low frequency.

    If you actually want to reproduce that low A be aware that you will need a large amount of power and probably some subs. Those xlt's are not made for that.

    As one of the other guys have said on detuning the strings it does make a difference and you might try a larger set of strings.
  7. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Dude that's one farken loud band you've got there!

    I was gonna suggest separating the cabs so they're not directly next to each other. It would have stopped the cabinets coupling and give you more control of the lows. But it will also reduce your volume a bit. After what you just said this is probaly not an option for you unless you can convince the band to turn down a bit.

    Eden have a special type of porting that has the air traveling a fair distance before it leaves the cab. It's designed that way deliberately to give more bottom end. Maybe you should borrow or hire a couple of 4x10 cabs with a more traditional porting design, just to try em out and see if that makes a difference.

    PS:- IMO Eden are not muddy anywhere. But they do produce more low mids than other cabs I've tried. This is a good thing for me. I used to find myself dialing in some 250hz, I don't have to any more.
  8. Getting a detuned bass string to vibrate cleanly, and getting a cabinet with 10's to deliver such a low frequency is asking a lot.... I think you and those who replied, would agree.

    1) Among others, our TB associate John Turner plays instruments with tunings that are quite low. He may also have some solid advice on this. He uses a Yamaha 18" subwoofer in his rig.

    2) Have you thought of (I know this is a dirty word) a bass synth pickup/processor by Roland? I'd imagine you could dig way down deep into 'low low land' and find tone that projects better than a detuned string thru a pickup.

    Good luck.
  9. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I think I misunderstood the problem. I thought he was getting too much bottom end and was looking for someting tighter and less boomy. Sorry.
  10. DRN


    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    "Dude that's one farken loud band you've got there!"
    You would think but my rig is not that loud. The drummer is hard hitting but not nuts I get alot of subs but no tight punchy volume.

    As for your last post you were not mistaken. I am trying to clean up the low end. I think what bimplizkit is saying is to tune normal and find a synth that can produce a clear tight low end. I would have more control over the tone.

    I am going to the Acme site next to look around and I think I will try some other cabs tomorrow just to see if standard porting will make a difference. I will also pick up some heavier gauge strings as well.

    I know I am asking the impossible with the low A but it seems like even when I am in standard tuning I am still eq-ing the hell out of it to get rid of the subs and it still does not work. I wanted to try a 15 or 18 with a 410 on top and use the crossover but I am screwed because of the 4ohm cabs.

    I appreciate all the feedback I am getting. Thanks, for all the responses. :D :D :D

  11. Lockout


    Dec 24, 2002
    I also wanted to ask you guys a question, if you don't mind me using your thread for a bit :)

    If you're biamping a rig, say for example...

    SWR SM-900
    SWR Goliath Senior (4ohms) - Highs
    SWR Big Ben (8ohms) - Lows

    How would you figure out the impedance? Is there a seperate impedance for each channel? Like would one be 4 and one be 8? If so, the goliath would be getting much more power than the Big ben right? Would that be a bad choice for a low frequency cab then? Should I try to get myself a Big Bertha 2x15 or something similar?

    So many possibilities, my head is spinning :)

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