1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

Cabinet Question (eden and more)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by JJd2sc, May 3, 2006.


  1. JJd2sc

    JJd2sc

    Jul 31, 2003
    Marietta, Georgia
    I was looking into two cabs to go with my yorkville xs800. I have a few questions. Some of the eden cabs im interested in say 4 or 8 ohms in the spec section of the site. Are certain ones made 4 and certain made 8 of these models? How can you tell? Or are they switchable? Also, I want my amp to hit its max wattage (800) at 4 ohms. Any good single or double cab combonations I can use? It doesnt have to be eden, but my price range is $1000 or less, and I would rather buy used (cheaper!). So the mission is to handle 800 watts with 1 or 2 cabinets at 4 ohms for under $1000. Any brand, go!
     
  2. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    IMHO, you want two cabs. My faves are either 1x12's or 2x10's. I'd think one of each would be great. If you get two 8 ohm cabs, that's 4 ohms, which is what you want.

    Tons of great cabs out there, but if you want new, one of the best values going right now would be a pair of Avatar NEO 210 cabs. That's 1200W of power handling, and wonderful tone for about $600 for the pair, shipped in the US. I've had 4 Avatar cabs, one I still have (NEO 210) and really like them a lot.

    Otherwise, again, there's tons of great cabs out there new/used... just keep in eye on the forsale forum, bassgear, harmony-central, etc.
     
  3. JJd2sc

    JJd2sc

    Jul 31, 2003
    Marietta, Georgia
    Out of curiosity, why you would you reccomend two 8 ohms over one four ohm? Also, why 2x210s rather than a single 4x10? I will check out what you said, I just would like to know the reasoning behind it :]
     
  4. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    First, two cabs instead of one, just because it's easier to hear a taller "stack" IMHO. Also, a pair of 210's stacked vertically, form a "line array" and will be more sonically consistant across the stage.
     
  5. JJd2sc

    JJd2sc

    Jul 31, 2003
    Marietta, Georgia
    for the record, im currently running with an ampeg 4x10hlf
     
  6. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    410's aren't bad, they're just not as good as a vertical arrangement. You avoid a thing called "comb filtering" if you go with a line array config, and you really can tell on stage.

    I used to have a pair of Eden 210XLT cabs I stacked horizontally, much like a 410. Sounded great. Then I stacked them vertically... sounded better. There are technical proof as well, and it was discussed in a thread here recently (including some participation from speaker/cab expert and professional Bill Fitzmaurice) but I can't recall the thread at the moment.

    ...IMHO...
     
  7. JJd2sc

    JJd2sc

    Jul 31, 2003
    Marietta, Georgia
    That is a very intersting concept. I currently play in a progressive metal band as my primary gig and some softer stuff for a soul singer as well. I want whatever cab(s) i get to sound good for both.
     
  8. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    Not a problem. If you get nice cabs with enough power handling and efficiency, it'll sound good for whatever you do with them. Bass gear has come a LONG way over the last several years.

    However, if you want more heavy bottom and not so much high end clarity, then you probably want to look more at 12's and maybe even think about a 15 with the 12's.
     
  9. JJd2sc

    JJd2sc

    Jul 31, 2003
    Marietta, Georgia
    Id still like plenty of high end clarity. I like the way i cut through with 10s right now. What would you think 2x10 and a 2x12 would sound? Or maybe 2x10 and a 1x15?

    Edit: I currently use a 500 watt ampeg 4x10. How much more volume would I get with a 2x10 1x15 totaling in 750 watts with a 400 watt 15 and a 350 watt 210? Would the sounds be balenced?
     
  10. Nighttrain1127

    Nighttrain1127 Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2004
    Near Worcester MA
    I have the neo 210 and the 210 Kappa pro and the Kappa speakers have a little more low end definition. The neos are more defined overall just not as deep so a combination of one neo cab and one kappa pro cab might be better.
     
  11. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    Like perfect solutions.

    If it were me, it'd be 10's and 12's, but these days, the 15's aren't nearly as muddy as they used to be, so I may (re)consider them at some point, but I'll always have 10's in my rig from now on. Just love their focus.
     
  12. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    I actually converted from the Kappa Pro 210 to the NEO and have never regretted it, and play mostly 5 string... NO problems with full rich lows with plenty of definition.

    To me (IMHO warning), the Kappas are nowhere near as "musical" as Dave's NEOs*, are super heavy, and I'll never need that much power handling in a single cab. In other words, I'll never own them again.

    *note: Dave's NEOs are customs with increased xmax, and are especially nice!
     
  13. Nighttrain1127

    Nighttrain1127 Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2004
    Near Worcester MA
    I just want to clarify There is a slight difference in the low end. My Neo cab will handle the B as well as the Kappa . And the neos as VIC said are much lighter and to my ear more articulate (My opinion) and are much easier to move . The Kappas seem to be a tad deeper but not as articulate especially through the mid bass. I also have a neo 112 And it adds A little depth and punch to the Neo 210. That is also a decent combination.
     
  14. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    +1
    Well put!
    Thing is, that low mid push the Kappas have really bugs me personally. Some might like it for their style, but for what I'm after, I find it's a big "tone sucker".
     
  15. Nighttrain1127

    Nighttrain1127 Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2004
    Near Worcester MA
    +1 And that "tone sucker" is also a good description of the Kappa's They just are not a smooth response speaker.
     
  16. JJd2sc

    JJd2sc

    Jul 31, 2003
    Marietta, Georgia
    I just want to make sure that these setups will work well in a metal band :] Im looking in to the suggestions, keep them coming and thanks.
     
  17. Groundloop

    Groundloop

    Jun 21, 2005
    Toronto
    Keep in mind that your Ampeg is rated to "handle" 500 watts, and the theoretical 210 and 115 are rated to "handle" 350 and 400 watts respectively. Those ratings are a recomendation of how much power you can safely use without damaging the drivers, and have very little (if anything at all) to do with how loud they will be.

    To sum up, if your Ampeg is a 4 Ohm cab, and the 210/115 stack are 8 Ohms each and combine to present a 4 Ohms load to the amp, and all three cabs have the same efficiency, then both setups would have the same volume (leaving out slight differences in speaker cone area).

    Unless of course I'm wrong, and if I'm wrong I'm sure I'll be corrected soon enough. :D
     
  18. JJd2sc

    JJd2sc

    Jul 31, 2003
    Marietta, Georgia
    Id like a combonation to make my current setup louder for sure.
     
  19. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    True.

    Ok, you were going great until you equated power transfer with efficiency. :)

    Having an equivalent load (4 ohms vs 4 ohms) WILL guarantee you the same power transfer from your amplifier to your cab(s), HOWEVER, how loud they will actually be to your ears (in SPLs -- such as "127dB @ 1m", for example, for an EA NL-210) will depend on two things:

    1.) How many speakers you're driving

    It's been proven that splitting equivalent power across more radiating surface increases volume levels. In other words, feeding 500W into a single 4 ohm 12" speaker will not be as loud as feeding that same power into a pair of 8 ohm 12" speakers ( still 4 ohms overall).

    2.) The ACTUAL efficiency of each cabinet

    Not all cabs are equally efficient. For example, one cab might have one SPL rating at 1W of input, but another might be much higher. The higher the SPL, the "louder" the cab, and the more efficient it is.

    GENERALLY speaking, the higher the power handling of the speaker, the lower the efficiency (the more "power hungry" they are). SO, if you have super high power capacity cabs, and way "underdrive" them, you're probably super safe, but you're also probably not getting the best sound from them.

    Also, most cabs are "rated" conservatively, especially when feeding them clean signals like most us bass players do. I've often heard of people feeding 400W or even 500W into 300W cabs with no probs.

    Yep. ;)
     
  20. Groundloop

    Groundloop

    Jun 21, 2005
    Toronto
    Not sure where I got off the rails, but in my post I said "present a 4 Ohms load to the amp, and all three cabs have the same efficiency, then both setups would have the same volume (leaving out slight differences in speaker cone area)."

    I wasn't (intentionally) equating power transfer with efficiency, but in re reading my post I can see that it might be interpreted that way. I guess I meant to say, "...and if all three cabs have the same efficiency", emphasis on the "if".

    Now, if I misused the term efficiency (and I meant it in the "Stick an SPL meter 1m in front of the cab and put 1 watt thru it" sense), again, mea culpa, and I don't mean to derail this thread, I'm just trying to make sure I (and anybody else reading) have what you're saying straight.

    Thanks.
     

Share This Page