Camelopard Endpin

Discussion in 'Setup & Repair [DB]' started by flatback, Apr 10, 2005.

  1. flatback


    May 6, 2004
    Bolinas Ca
    So this week I decided to install a KC Strings endpin tip (the rounded rubber one) on my Camelopard endpin. I had a friend over who was going to retap the threads in the rubber tip to fit. The chrutch tip slips alot if there is any angle at all, and I am hoping that the rounded KC strings tip will hold firm. Anyway I was telling my friend about how the cat from camelopard gave me all these different endpins so that I could show other bassists that changing out the endpin really does make a sonic difference. I have not done this in a few years, because it seems like there is not a lot of interest in high end endpins whether they make a sonic difference or not. Anyway this guy was interested, so I got out the pins and we tried them one after the other. I was really amazed again at what a huge difference in tone is produced. For example, we went back and forth between the hollow titanium tube (which Camelopard gave me as a control) and the Pizz model. There was so much focused rich fundamental in the pizz model, it was striking.

    Anyway the question I want to pose to any luthiers out there is, Camelopards line is that he did a bunch of research on the dampened resonances of solid metal endpins and then he developed these materials (filled titanium tubes) that resonate with the instrument. It seems to me to be a striking aural difference, but I never hear any arguments one way or the other and there don't seem to be any other luthiers making similar pins. Why I wonder? Is it just that too few people have tried them or have Luthiers gone thru the tuned endpin Idea and come out the other side?

    BTW Camelopard gave me these pins several years ago to test and show around but I dont have any affiliation with them
  2. flatback,
    I bought one of the camelopard pizz end pins and installed it in my NS Cleveland. While the improvement was subtle in with the crutch tip, it was pronounced with the spike. Expensive :eyebrow: ? You betcha'.Worth it :eyebrow: ? Yep, it made an excellent instrument even better :hyper: . Don't know why one of the luthier boys haven't gotten into these things as well as tailpieces. Maybe the costs? I'm just glad I installed one on my bass.
  3. flatback


    May 6, 2004
    Bolinas Ca
    if you put the KC Strings crutch tip on (you'll have to have it bored out to the right threads) you'll get almost the same response as you do with the tip. It makes a marked improvement in sound and sticks to the ground better then anything.
  4. mje


    Aug 1, 2002
    Southeast Michigan
    We're starting to sound like the HiFi tweaks who put their electronics on little cones and talk about "a reduction in chalkiness in the midrange.."

    Yet there's clearly a significant effect to be had with soem of these changes. I put a new endpin- a tubular model- that was much stiffer that the 1/4" stock unit- on my Romanian bass, and there's a big difference in the sound and an even bigger difference in the feel of the bass.

    Based on the experiences of some TB-ers and a friend nearby, I've ordered a Wittner tailpiece. We'll see.
  5. flatback


    May 6, 2004
    Bolinas Ca
    I know what you mean about the slippery slope of gear nerdia, on the other hand I don't know of any musicians playing any instrument well, who ane not primarily concerned with their sound. The recording industry has come along way in the past 100 years, so when you listen to the sounds that you produce thru the microscope of modern recording, you hear a whole lot about yourself and your instrument. I want my (less then pedigree but beautiful) bass to sound its best and some of these improvements make it so. I also happen to be an enthusiast about music and its tools and enormously appreciate inventers who apply themselves and modern technology to the technical problems.
  6. flatback,
    Thanks for the tip. No pun intended. Is there a part # or a specific model number for the K.C. strings part? Will check out their web site now. Thanks again.


    FOUND IT! Would you re-thread the shaft or tap the hole to fit the camelopard?
  7. flatback


    May 6, 2004
    Bolinas Ca
    I ended up using an earier prototype I had where the tip unthreaded, but we were going to rethread the KC tip (much less expensive to replace if something goes wrong)
  8. Flatback,
    Good idea. Will be calling into KC for a new tip on monday. Looking forward to the same improvement as the spike produced. Thanks again,
  9. Flatback,
    I machined a threaded rod to interface with the female end of the KC strings stopper as well as the female end of the Camelopard titanium rod. Got the whole thing assembled and you were right. The bass is more comfortable to play and the sonic difference now matches the tone from the spike. Thanks for the tip and all the guidance. It really made a difference. Mr. Miller, I think that was his name, might want to include this adaptation on any future production.
    Thanks again,
  10. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    One of the things that I find interesting with this endpins system is that while you can get a CF or hollow Titanium endpin to compare to the resonant endpins, there is no solid steel endpin to use for comparison. And that is the most interesting comparison since most of us use solid steel endpins.
  11. You bring up a good point Adrian. The Camelopard end pin is 5/8" in diameter and would probably weigh a ton if solid as most pins are. I have recently turned 5/8" lignum vitae, osage orange and dogwood end pins on C.Trager's advise and found that the hollow or tubular metal titanium resonates more freely. I have no reason why, it just do! I don't think I would try it with a 10mm pin. Just not enough material there (wood) to trust with supporting the Cleveland or the Juzek.
    Jim :confused:
  12. LouisF

    LouisF Supporting Member

    Apr 21, 2003
    Los Angeles, CA
    Some one was looking for the contact info on these - I finally came across it (I have one of his end pins)

    Frederick Miller

    I think he lives in Milton, Mass - I couldn't find the phone number