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Can a GK 2001RBP Preamp Sound Just Like an 800RB or 700RB?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by tallboybass, Dec 8, 2009.


  1. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    The reason I'm asking....some folks have said that the GK sound is partially in the power amp section. Now the 2001RBP has the 'boost' knob which is theoretically the source of GK grind. Anyone know for sure?

    Thanks, Alan

    PS - Of course it will be run into a power amp and speakers...but you knew that. We're talking 'for live sound' here.
     
  2. SpamBot

    SpamBot

    Dec 25, 2008
    St. Paul, MN
    According to Gallien himself (rag here on TB), the source of the GK growl/grind is running the power amp rail-to-rail, so full on. You can't do this with the 2001RBP as it doesn't have a power section, but the boost knob is a good approximation.

    In summation, you can get the G-K sound from just the preamp, but without a power amp in the mix, you won't get it perfect.
     
  3. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Thanks SpamBot! Have you ever owned a 2001RBP?
     
  4. SpamBot

    SpamBot

    Dec 25, 2008
    St. Paul, MN
    No, what I've said is purely a summation of rag's posts in the various "G-K growl" threads.
    I've used the Backline 600 extensively and my experience with that confirms what Gallien has said, in that "Boost" is not at all the same as running an amp rail-to-rail.
    However, the 2001RBP being a preamp, and a good one at that (or so I've heard) I'm sure it has a much better approximation of that full-on master growl than the BL600's boost knob.

    YMMV.
     
  5. Hizzoner

    Hizzoner

    Jan 6, 2005
    Chicago area
    The rbp can definitely growl with the boost turned up...And it had an awesome distortion channel to boot...I matched it with a qsc plx 1602 to good effect...don't you have a power amp like that tallboy? seem to remember a thread about shuttle plus poweramp from you a while back...

    MB
     
  6. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Thanks for responding Hizzoner. Have you had a GK head and if so, how did the RBP + power amp compare?

    Yes, I have a QSC 1804 that I LOVE!! That's what got me thinking about the 2001RBP. The two together will weigh less than a 700RB-II....only it'll have, uh, 1800 watts. How could THAT be bad?

    BTW, that Shuttle 6.0 + 1800 watts is still about the best thing I've ever played through! I don't even HAVE a loud gig right now but you know how it goes here at TB!!!
     
  7. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    The 2001RBP + power amp sounded pretty much exactly like a 1001 RB II to me.
     
  8. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Ah cool, I think this answers my question! Have you owned both? I had a 1001RB-II for quite a while and loved it. Seemed to be a lot more hi-fi than my old 800RB but that was OK. It was also a bottomless pit of headroom. That's what I'm hoping for with the 2001RBP + QSC PLX1804....and in a 3-space shallow rack that is lighter than having a 1001RB-II in there.
     
  9. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    I have owned a 700 rb II and two 1001 RB IIs. I've loved'em all, but the 700 RB II does have a subtle sonic difference when pushed. So subtle that I could not notice it in a mix at all.

    I've played the 800RB as a backline before too and it does not sound like the 2001 RBP/1001 RBP so much to my ears.

    I think you will be happy so long as the signal from the 2001 RBP is hot enough for the 1804. You'll want to try using both the DI, and also try a TS cable in the Chain Out, which is a little hotter. Use the DI at max level first and see if it's enough.

    My experience was that the 2001 RBP was hot enough for a 1.0v sensitivity amp but did not play nicely with 2.25v, and was barely enough for 1.6v.
     
  10. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    I listened to that pre into a CA-9 and Berg setup. HT-322 IIRC. I thought it was terrible. Sounded nothing like a 1001 RB II - had no balls, it was loud but it had none of the GK thing happening. Loud and sterile... I was disappointed at best as I was in the market for a new pre at the time and being a GK fan - well that was high on my list... I ended up shelving the rack setup for another 1001 RB II shortly afterwards. The GK power section and the way that the pre interfaces with it is a big part of the GK sound.

    FWIW - I've had the same experience with Eden. My old Navigator/2402 rig was good. My current WT-800, while not as loud, though plenty loud enough - is way, way better.

    My take is that you're shaving about 5 lbs and gob's of tone going that route...
     
  11. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    The PLX1804 has worked wonderfully with: SansAmp ParaDriver, effects send from a Shuttle 6.0, BBE B-Max SS preamp.

    4Mal, I appreciate your experience, thanks for responding. I got a response from The Man, Bob himself.

    "To a trained ear it will sound different through most if not all PA amplifiers. GK power amplifiers have a wider response, faster slew rate, better rail recovery and higher impulse current rating than other amplifiers, including PA amplifiers. This does not mean you will not be pleased with the result, it will just be different."
    Bob
     
  12. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    One thing I'd ask is if the CA9 was jumpered to a higher input sensitivity or not. My experience was that for anything much over 1.0v sensitivity, the 2001RBP needed some sort of boost ahead or behind it (I used a mic preamp to get it up to snuff for the Yamaha P5000S).
     
  13. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Input sensitivity on PLX1804 is 1.2V.
     
  14. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    I think you'll be OK and wind up wanting to use the Chain out.

    Heads up on the Chain out btw. I spent a lot of time on the phone with GK about that.

    Apparently the Chain Out is a TRS jack @ 1.0v output or so (goes higher of course) with standard stereo configuration - one is the 5khz and up tweeter signal and one is the woofer. My experience was using a standard TS cable made it woofer only (or full range if you don't engage the high cut, IIRC) and this was the method suggested by GK support. I guess it's made to link a 2001RBP to another 2001 RB or so.
     
  15. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    So...use the 'chain out' with a TS cable...that's the highest output on the pre?
     
  16. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    That's what the GK support folks told me to do when I had output issues.

    Try the XLR first and see if it's enough, since some power amps lose volume with an unbalanced connection.
     
  17. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Of course it would be nice to keep the DI clear in case I needed to send a signal to the PA.

    I don't have a 2001RBP...yet, but it looks like it might be perfect since I've got a shallow 3-space X-Rack with a PLX1804 sitting there looking at me. If I was sure it would do the GK sound, or even close, I'd probably get one.
     
  18. bongomania

    bongomania Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    You can also "kill two birds" by using a boost pedal in front of the GK preamp. This will increase the amount of dirt you get from it, as well as increasing the level it sends to the power amp.

    Whether it sounds good will be up to you. ;)
     
  19. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    If I have to run a pedal in front of an amp to make it work, I'll do something else.
     
  20. Zooberwerx

    Zooberwerx Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2002
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Don't know about the "highest output" but I use a TRS cable betweenst the balanced Chain Out and balanced input on my power amp. One side carries the sub 5K stuff and the other handles the 5K+.

    Riis
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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