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Can a high wattage class D bass head effect a guitar combo??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by frankegcbass, Mar 31, 2013.


  1. Not sure if this would be better in live sound. Because it is an amp issue. Anyway.
    So I recently acquired an orange tb 1000. Long story short, I just played a show with it. My guitar player, next to me on the stage complained that the 1000 watt head was sucking power from his fender combo, making it sound aweful during the show. We were not plugged into the same power. In fact, I always bring my own power supply and use it for my amp and two pedals.
    So could that be possible? His amp sounded like it was cutting out when we were both playing. But did sound ok when he was playing alone. Which makes me think there is a slight chance he is right.
    But there are bass amps with far more wattage than my 1000 watt lunch box. And these company make these things to be played, on stage, with guitar players.
    Can anyone weigh in on this?
    __________________
     
  2. Are you both on the same circuit? If so I guess there could be some voltage sag, but I doubt your amp is effecting his.
     
  3. seamonkey

    seamonkey

    Aug 6, 2004
    Your own power supply?
    You probably were sharing the same circuit.

    Louder sounds mask quieter ones. You were probably masking him with your 1000w :ninja:
     
  4. ...

    Different power supply and different circuit.
     
  5. 254 stringer

    254 stringer Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2010
    Waco Texas
    No your amp would have to pull a lot of amps to suck the voltage down like when an AC motor starts up ever see your lights dim when the air conditioner turns on.
     
  6. Foz

    Foz

    Jul 26, 2008
    Jax FL USA
    Tell your gui**** to stop sucking all the IQ out of the room and get his crappy amp fixed.

    But seriously, when current/volts are running low usually the amp with more/bigger caps wins - I could see yours winning that battle - try running a large wire / low gauge extension cord for your amp to another outlet next time you play that stage.

    PS: Just cause yall use different outlets it don't mean you are on different circuits.
     
  7. Haha. It is a crappy amp. And honestly I think it was the wiring in his guitar, since he changed his pickups himself recently. But we don't talk too much, so Im just going by what he says.
    Thanks though, I will try that.
     
  8. 254 stringer

    254 stringer Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2010
    Waco Texas
    It should be fine according to my 4 pro it uses 425va which comes out to 3.5 amps.
     
  9. Mehve

    Mehve

    Jun 2, 2012
    Kitchener, ON
    It's possible that the two of you are just pulling more power than the circuit can properly supply. Not the fault of your amp specifically, just a function of the raw power being drawn. Assuming you're actually using most of the 1000W capacity in the first place. Fortunately, there's an easy way to test that.

    Thanks to the bad relationship between Power and "apparent volume", it takes a lot of power to get a little louder at high wattages. Or, to look at it another way, it should be possible to just back off the volume a little, and suddenly "free up" a lot of power for his guitar amp to use. Highly doubt that's the issue, though. Unless there's other stuff on the same circuit, it's a pretty lame circuit that starts choking at 1000W.

    I put better odds on your new amp having the guts to overpower his combo. No idea what kind of settings your guitarist uses, but make sure he isn't using a "bedroom tone", with boosted bass and cut mids. That sort of stuff just vanishes in a live setting.
     
  10. nashman

    nashman

    Feb 11, 2011
    Maybe there's an EQ issue - competing at the same frequencies (?)
     
  11. JohnMCA72

    JohnMCA72

    Feb 4, 2009
    I'd sooner think that your amp is covering some different sound frequencies than whatever you were using before. What your guitar player is hearing (or isn't hearing?) might be just overlaps between your instruments that weren't there before. Where he was overpowering you before, now you're overpowering him.

    No amp is going to "suck power" from another amp, on the same or any other circuit.
     
  12. Hi.

    ...

    It's not unlikely that the circuit You both were using was overloaded by all the equpment connected to that line and the weakest link -the guitar amp in this particular case- suffered as a result.

    MI amps of any kind aren't usually the culprit, the lights are. Only the LEDs are very conservative when it comes down to power draw, all others suck it like there's no tomorrow.

    1Kw of music power is quite a lot, 1KW of light is absolutely nothing in entertainment unless it's pitch black and no gels are used.


    I call BS on that, there's no way that 2 different power supply lines would run on-shore in an environment where anyone could tap into either.
    Or both.
    At the same time.
    At least the receptables must be different and marked accordingly.

    Possible, but given Your location, pretty unlikely.
    Unless US has given in finally and stepped up to the 3~ world.
    Something that AFAIK hasn't quite happened yet.

    How did You determine that You were in different circuits?

    Regards
    Sam
     
  13. mntngrown

    mntngrown Supporting Member

    Aug 18, 2007
    Santa Cruz Ca
    A bass playing electrician will probably chime in here, but chances are, (unless you know otherwise), if you were playing in the same room, regardless of the fact you plugged in to different outlets, you were on the same circuit, controlled by the same breaker, (or fuse) if old, in the panel. That's one way to tell. Go to the panel, and see if the circuits are labeled, then throw the breaker and see which outlets are dead. (with permission of course).
    Some little clubs have the kitchen bar and stage on the same circuit. Put a few amps and PA etc in the mix and failure can happen.
     
  14. figuredbass

    figuredbass Supporting Member

    Jul 11, 2007
    NYC vicinity
    It is very unlikely that your amp was the cause of your guitar player's amp problem. First of all, this is not a "known" issue with bass amps, as bass amps would not even be manufactured with an "inherent problem" such as this. Since this is not a common phenomenon, it may be possible that grossly inadequate AC power circuit or circuits in the club could cause a slight drop in the AC line voltage, but this still wouldn't generally reduce a guitar amps' volume to a very large degree at all, at least not nearly as much as he was complaining it was. My vote would be with the posters who said you were burying (masking) him acoustically with volume. It sounds as though his amp was underpowered for the gig.

    A few years ago I went to see a friend play in a club that I'd seen him play in many times using the same bass and amp. When I got there he immediately beckoned me over with a panicked look on his face. I asked him what was wrong and he said in the middle of the tune, "There's something wrong with my bass amp! It's not putting out any power!" I told him I'd listen closely and see if I could hear any symptoms. (We both used the exact same amp and speaker.) I then covered my ears and listened very closely to his 15" cab to hear if there was any distortion. No, clear as a bell. And surprisingly, there was an awesome punch coming out. I stepped back, and listened some more. Then it hit me. I laughed and laughed, and my friend looked at me puzzled. I went over and told him that the drummer (a sub who I also knew and played with) was playing so loud that he was being buried by the drums! There was absolutely nothing wrong with his amp at all, not then or from that point on. I still love telling this story, as you can see.
     
  15. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    LOL. Yes! My last band's practice space was in a very old house with low-amperage circuits. My lead guitarist and I were always hassling each other for drawing too much power and making the other's amp go wimpy. I suspect my amp was the culprit since I was running 500 watts and he had a piddly 40-watt amp.
     
  16. Bass amp - 1 : guitar amp - 0
    Bass player win! :D
     
  17. IPYF

    IPYF

    Mar 31, 2011
    I suspect a frequency overlap, probably somewhere in the midrange. Sounds to me like the two amps are competing with each other. Also the Orange is probably a lot louder than the Fender in general.

    Sit down together and have a fiddle with your tones, figure out where you're headbutting each other.

    If this doesn't work you can take the tried and true route of turning yourself off completely to prevent the guitar player from taking his toys and going home.
     
  18. LOL, so much serious comedy critique.

    Hey, at least your amp has an efficient class D power stage so it's drawing very little extra juice over what it puts out in music power. I bet it draws less than an SVT.

    If guitar turns down the bass on his amp he won't need to suck so much power, win win.
     
  19. Foz

    Foz

    Jul 26, 2008
    Jax FL USA
    Could well be the root of the problem.

    Tell your gui**** to stop sucking all the IQ out of the room and get his crappy guitar and his crappy amp fixed.

    There I fixed it! :hyper:

    ===

    That said it is perfectly possible for a band + PA + lights to tap enough current to drop the volts on a line.

    Every facility has multiple circuits [that's why breaker boxes have all those cute little switches in em] so getting a pair of them to the stage relatively unburdened shouldn't be insurmountable.

    Many a bar/venue owner barely above half witted has encountered low capacity of the electrical feed to his stage area and fixed it by running more than one circuit to feed stage plugs or come up with some simple expedient.

    For example: at one venue we play the manager - when we start setting up - always unplugs a neon light from an outlet on a sidewall out in the seating area and then runs a short 12 ga. extension cord to stage side from this outlet and instructs us to use this source for half our electrical load [we use it to run PA and LED lights]. He does this because he knows from experience that running everything off the back wall stage plugs doesn't cut it.

    You may well have run into a circumstance that requires a similar solution.

    ===

    If you don't carry a multi-meter in your tool box, it might be a good idea to get yourself something like this for your rig.

    http://www.amazon.com/Prime-Products-12-4058-Power-Monitor/dp/B000BRFTH6/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_t_2_8P58
     
  20. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    If anything, a switchmode amp would draw less current from the mains than a conventional amp of the same power rating.
     

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