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can anyone explain to me this whole math-metal thing?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by superbassman2000, Jun 24, 2004.


  1. For me, it all started with mudvayne. I read BP talk about how great their bass player is, how this guy is the next generation in rock and how he's probably the best bassist ever...blah, blah, blah, and then i bought a guitar player mag, were they do the same thing with the guitar player, and they call mudvayne's phenomina "math-metal" so what's the deal with that? I've heard them...sound like any other nu-metal band out there except the bass player slaps and taps...and what's the deal with calling it math-metal? how is there any extra math in mudvayne's songs than in any other song ever written?
    now i have the greatest respect for mudvayne, a lot of people here like the bassist, and they have a few good songs...but they are not to blame here! WHATS THE DEAL WITH MATH-METAL???? who came up with this term?


    Charlie
     
  2. Eric Cioe

    Eric Cioe

    Jun 4, 2001
    Missoula, MT
    Think nu-metal in 19/16, then 7/8, then 5/8, then a measure of 4/4 (only one of those per song though), then 5/16. Repeat, and do your best to pretend that it flows.

    Really, Mudvayne does what they do well- I've seen them live, had a good time. However, they have no groove as a band. Playing in odd times is rough, but trying to make it sound natural is even harder, and for me, these guys miss the mark.

    Maybe that's the point.
     
  3. incognito89x

    incognito89x ♪♫♪ ♪ ♪ ♫&#983

    Sep 22, 2002
    Royal Oak, Michigan
    That's just what the called their music, because generally it's much more complex and interesting than most normal "nu-metal" bands.

    I'm sure whoever wrote the magazines took their "math-metal" idea and decided it would be a great way to get people to look at the article or whatever.

    Eric, you didnt think they have any groove? I haven't seen them in person live, but I've got quite a few videos of live performances, and I'd say (at least) Ryan and Matt are in great sync with each other. Greg (guitar) i've never been as fond of his live tone on most videos i've seen of them.

    Next generation of rock, I suppose I could see that in some regards. Compared to much of the garbage being released Ryan has a ton of talent, and if I recall correctly, quite a bit of professional training and schooling.

    I think generall it just boils down to them exploring music more thoroughly than some. I read an interview about the "math-metal" origins and it was basically when they worked on composing songs they would work them out by numbers. Deciding measures and different ideas and how to work them together.

    Just much along the lines of other bands, such as Tool, who play more than just 4/4 generic music.
     
  4. Against Will

    Against Will Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Big Sound Central
    Math-rock is overly complex generally guitar-centric rock that bounces gleefully across time-signatures, tempos and key changes. Its complex song structures were often determined mathematically, or by using mathmatic means, similar to the "serialism" technique used in a number of "classical" music from the modern period.

    Math-metal is similar, I guess, only more metal less rock.

    I don't know much of Mudvanye's music, but from what I do know, it's an adaequate enough thing to call them. Though personally, I don't know if they're weird enough.
     
  5. vbass

    vbass

    May 7, 2004
    Bay Area, CA
    math + metal = another annoying genre classification that serves no other purpose than to confuse and incite holy wars, thusly DESTROYING METAL FOREVER. /down with the system
     
  6. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Mudvanye really isn't mathy. Thy just don't play in 4/4.

    Check out Dillinger Escape Plan or Meshuggah for some mathy wackiness. DEP will make your head melt, while Meshuggah is a bit more paletable, overall.
     
  7. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    NOMEANSNO is pretty math intensive too.
     
  8. Lackey

    Lackey

    May 10, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I can see that, DEP is in general more chaotic...structures are much looser.

    Meshuggah is intensely structured, almost machine like. Guitars/Bass riff sync with the bass drum, meanwhile the cymbals and snare are following their own path. Monotone vocals on Nothing actually complement the music - although Jens admittedly has no range. The drum fills and futuristic guitar solos lend only part of the humanity back into the music. 11/8 over 4/4, great fun....this is equally as head melting as DEP.

    You MUST check out Mahavishnu Orchestra (recc. Birds Of Fire) and King Crimson (Discipline) for the genesis of mathy music. Some will scream ZAPPA! But I don't care for him and don't know which albums to reccommend.
     
  9. ESP Eden

    ESP Eden

    Feb 9, 2004
    washington mo
    Dillinger Escape Plan is definitive math metal.
     
  10. Against Will

    Against Will Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Big Sound Central
    Great band.


    But I think they might be TOO weird to be called "math-rock". Regardless, they're incredible and I wish they could tour down south again.
     
  11. Coutts_is_god

    Coutts_is_god Guest

    Dec 29, 2003
    Windsor, Ont, Canada
    I hope I never hear math and metal together again.
     
  12. Matt Till

    Matt Till

    Jun 1, 2002
    Edinboro, PA
    I prefer World History Metal: Iron Maiden! :bassist:
     
  13. Coutts_is_god

    Coutts_is_god Guest

    Dec 29, 2003
    Windsor, Ont, Canada
    \--/ :mad: \--/
     
  14. Adam Barkley

    Adam Barkley Mayday!

    Aug 26, 2003
    Jackson, MS
    I heard Tool wrote out Lateralus without playing, i.e. tempos, signatures, and keys; then they created parts.

    Seems like math metal to me, if that is indeed true. I doubt it is though.
     
  15. vbass

    vbass

    May 7, 2004
    Bay Area, CA
    Maybe thats why that album sucked so much.
     
  16. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Zing.
     
  17. Adam Barkley

    Adam Barkley Mayday!

    Aug 26, 2003
    Jackson, MS

    Oh crap! that album sucked? I better go throw it away because the ultimate judge of suckiness, Vbass, says it sucks so bad. :eyebrow:

    I happened to like that entire album, sorry if you didn't.


    Edit: rule violation, use pm.
     
  18. "math metal" just sounds better than "pissed-off prog"

    DEP is my favorite. i don't like the regular singer. i saw them with patton singing last year and that rawked my face clean off my head.
     
  19. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Nothing like having a 11/8 guitar over a 3/4 bass drum, 13/8 snare, and 2/4 bass, and then some dude just putting his nuts in a cheese grater over top of it all. Mmmm mmm good.

    (I don't care for the regular vocalist either. There are much better screamers out there than him.)
     
  20. Matt Till

    Matt Till

    Jun 1, 2002
    Edinboro, PA
    With their orginal singer, DEP is the musical equivilant of chaos personified. They very much get that across. With Patton, they sounds more... talented.