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Can I use these bass amps in conjunction???

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bdhoward27, Jun 28, 2014.


  1. I'm wanting to use a Behringer bass amp (as my sub) in conjunction with a Hartke bass amp and bass head. Will this work? I'm worried the Behringer will blow because i can't find the ohms in any online description, or on the amp itself. I also need to know the correct method in connecting the two. Any help will be much appreciated. Specs are listed below:

    Bass Head: Hartke model 3500, 350 watts

    Bass Amp: Hartke 4.5 Bass Module XL series, 4x10"

    Bass Amp (sub): Behringer BXL3000 300 watt 2-channel, 1x15"
     
  2. You should have a pre amp out 9 the Hartke. Run that to your combo.
     
  3. Just did a little more research:

    Behringer bass amp- Amplifier power output: 300 watts @ 4 ohms • Loudspeaker type: 15" • Impedance: 4 ohms • Power handling: 200 watts

    Hartke bass head - 350 watts at 4 ohms/240 watts at 8 ohms

    Is this even feasible or will i be taking too big of a risk burning up the Behringer amp?... or am I just viewing this all wrong and it will work out for the better? Again, I will be running part of my tone through the Hartke 4x10 amp as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
  4. Steve Dallman

    Steve Dallman Supporting Member

    Try it and see how it works.
     
  5. No.

    Use the built in amp on the combo. Run a patch cable from the pre of the Hartke.
     
    eukatheude, Flad and bdhoward27 like this.
  6. Ok, i'm a noob at this. But this is why I'm on here.

    Does anyone know the impedance of the Hartke 4x10 bass amp that I'm using? It says the cabinet is 400 watts @ 8 ohms. Does that mean the impedance is 8 ohms? I just watched a video that says NOT to combine 2 different impedances. The impedance of the Behringer 1x15 is 4 ohms.

    If I had the cash I would grab another 4x10 cabinet. But, this is what I have to work with at the moment. If the impedances match up, I'm gonna give it a shot... If not, well... then I'm glad you guys/gals helped me out...
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  7. Flad

    Flad

    Apr 18, 2014
    You only need to worry about the impedance when mixing and matching speaker cabinets to an amp. Run the "line out" or "pre-amp" out from the Hartkey to the input of the Behringer, push the harkey cab with the harkey amp and let the behringer power it's self! Unless the amp section of the behringer is blown and you're just trying to use the behringer as a cab, then you'll need to worry about the impedance. But I'm pretty sure since the behringer has a 4ohm cab, that you won't be able to use it in conjunction with your Harkey unless is can handle 2ohms, but I'm not really clear on that and often get the math backward in me head, but I'm pretty sure, 2x4ohms is 2 ohms...so you'll over heat your amp, someone please correct me, I think I'm right but then again....
     
  8. RickenBoogie

    RickenBoogie

    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    Is the Behringer a combo amp, or a cab? First, get the terminology- an amp is the power part, a pre and poweramp in one "head" unit. A speaker cab is a box with a spkr(s), but no power. A combo amp is both in one box.
    If you have a head, a cab, and a combo, do as CLPeavey suggested, run the head/cab as normal, using a speaker cable from spkr out on amp to input of cab, then use an instrument cable from the head's preamp out, or effects send, to the combo's poweramp in, or effects return. If those aren't available on the combo, use the main input.
     
    bdhoward27 likes this.
  9. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    CLPeavey and Rickenboogie are spot on. This isn't really that uncommon, and you shouldn't be terribly concerned that anything will blow up if you use your ears to listen for distress. If it turns out that you do need to use the Behringer's main input, the only thing I'd like to add is to be a bit cautious of how high the output from the Hartke amp is. Just be sure you're NOT feeding a speaker output to anything but a speaker. You are still ****mixing**** drivers which is a whole new monster. Your ears are the best test equipment for telling you if it will work tone-wise.
    You keep saying "sub" when referring to the Behringer. Are you planning on using some kind of crossover or filter to dedicate lower frequencies solely to the Behringer? IMO this isn't going to really be any improvement over using the signal full range. Actually, I'd bet the 4x10 has better lows, and sending the lowest of the lows to the Behringer may create more problems. There's not much benefit, really, to using a sub for bass guitar. It just turns the mix into mud.
     
    bdhoward27 likes this.
  10. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    Also keep in mind that regardless of power ratings, it is a fair assumption to say the 4x10 will be able to go much louder than the 1x15. Be sure if you do stack them, listen for the 1x15 to hit it's limits. Ideally it should sit on top so it's closer to your ears, making it easier to hear it starting to distort. However; with a setup like this there is a bit of an advantage over using the 4x10+1x15 setup with a single amp since you can control the volume and tone of the cabs separately.
     
  11. Sub may have been a bad term to describe what I'm wanting to go for...

    I use a fair amount of overdrive in my chain and I believe one of the Hartke 4x10's blew. Although, it is used so it may have been a problem before I started using it. Planning to get it fixed within next couple days. On the Hartke bass head, I'm using a pretty hefty cut on HPF, a hefty cut to 30hz on graphic EQ, and around 2db+ cut on 64hz. The low/low-mids were really giving that cab a hard time for some reason. I even looked into getting a "Thumpinator" to reduce the amount of stress on cab but I already have a HPF on bass head. Logically, that would've been a waste of money, right? Anyway, the Hartke is giving the attack and high-mid presence I want, but sounds like poo for my low end. Plus, it wasn't giving me the power to be present in our practice space AT ALL. The Hartke is a 400 watt amp and, tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking that it was only getting 240 watts of power from the head. I don't think my compressor pedal is putting me that low in our live mix because I can adjust the ratio/threshold to my liking. Just using the 4x10's made my whole band sound too thin. The bass I use can be toggled between passive/active and the input jacks on head can be ran to either as well. "Passive" lost presence and muddied up my tone even using the graphic EQ (also gave the 4, 10's hell) and "Active" made me sound too thin. I even brought back more "solid state" and cut some of "tube amp". No luck. This is why I wanted to use the Behringer 1x15 to bring back the low end we are missing in our live mix. It has a decent graphic EQ to where I could cut the muddier frequencies of my low end and even bring out a little presence in my mids. I plugged into it after frustration ensued last practice. My low mids sounded great and my presence was there but just not where I wanted. This is why the idea came up to use the two in conjunction. Like I said, I'm relatively new to this so any help is appreciated and considered.
     
  12. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    I see. First things first, change your battery and check all your cables. Getting that 4x10 up to full order is certainly the best bet for improving in the short term also. Are you "smiley-face" on the EQ? Doing that can cause some of the problems you describe. Have you tried running the EQ settings "flat" or at least "noon-or-below-only"? What sounds good without the rest of the band doesn't always so good in a mix. Also try going with the simplest signal chain you can. Don't use any bells or whistles on the amp at first, adding them one by one. If running the bass straight in to just the Hartke +4x10 makes an improvement, start adding the other things to the signal chain, one at a time. When the problems you describe begin to manifest, concentrate on the last piece of gear you added to the chain, this is what's doing it. Also keep in mind that if you're playing harder stuff and are up against a hard-hitting drummer and 4x12's, you may just be at a point where it's time to build another rig, or at least add to it.
    IME 240 watts into a 4x10 PLUS a 350 watt 1x15 combo should be WAY enough power. There's something else going on here.
     
    bdhoward27 likes this.
  13. No smiley face EQ. I slap very seldom and I enjoy a slight mid presence around 1K. I don't have the amp in front of me but I can tell you roundabout what i think it is.

    -6db 30hz
    -2db 64hz
    +2db 125hz
    -4db 250hz
    -2db 500hz
    flat 1khz
    -2db 2khz
    flat 3khz
    -2db 5khz
    -3db 8khz

    Off the top of my head I can't remember my tube amp/solid state settings nor do I remember exactly where I had my LPF and HPF set.

    I'm a finger-style bassist playing in drop-C. This EQ was giving me enough low end and attack to sit nicely until rattling began. Then it just seemed like I wasn't getting enough juice from the Hartke amp. I haven't tried connecting the Behringer yet. I need to learn as much about the two first before i try and possibly fry. Don't want that to happen! I will definitely look through the pedals one-by-one next time. I guess it would help to have some common sense :wacky:

    Thank you for the quick reply
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  14. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    Aha! Drop C. Well this may be a contributing factor. You say the cab was fine for a while. You might just be using a cab that doesn't like to go that low. It doesn't take much power at all to reach your limits when you go low like that. I still think there's something else happening, because lots of folks play down to B all day without problems. BUT when you give some cabs a lot of juice down low, you can cause all sorts of mayhem. I still see a bit of cutting in the range where you might need to be keeping the EQ a bit "UP", like 250, 500, 1k. A 4 dB cut at 250 may be a bit too much. I don't have any personal experience with that amp, but it's entirely possible that even if you roll all the knobs to "noon" or "0" there's a baked in mid-scoop inherent in the amp, that a -4dB setting can take out even more of those precious mids. Even that -2 dB at 500 could be robbing you of definition if the amp has a natural scoop. At this point, I think with almost certainty that adding the Behringer won't cure the problem, although it may help a bit with the symptoms. Try the earlier suggestion of using a clean tone, and simple signal chain. You may find that running distortion and compression, maybe even doubling the compression if you use a pedal and amp settings to compress the signal, is simply robbing you of power.
    Get that cab fixed! Also it wouldn't hurt to double-check all of the speaker mounting screws, grill covers, even corner protector and logo plate screws on the rig. Rattling can sound like distortion. Also try deeper cuts below 70Hz.
     
    bdhoward27 likes this.
  15. Impedance is not an issue here - if you use the pre out from the hartke head into the amp in of the combo, you're just sending a line level signal to its power amp, bypassing the behringer's pre.
    You need to worry about impedance when connecting speaker cabinets to an amp head - here you are connecting an amp to another.


    Ps. You do need to worry about impedance also in these kind of connections, but the main thing here is that you won't blow up anything IF you don't use the speaker outputs from the head.
     
    bdhoward27 likes this.
  16. Don't play that 410 until you fix it. You'll just wreck more speakers if you do.
     
    eukatheude likes this.
  17. tbz

    tbz

    Jun 28, 2013
    SoCal
    Yeah even if you're on a tight budget an Ampeg, Eden or Swr used 410 should go for under $450 on CL. Get one, call it a day.

    Honestly a 400 watt cab and a head running at 250/350 watts, solid state, seems extremely underpowered for drop C. Especially if you have a loud guitarist and drummer.

    In my pop rock style band, where my guitarist uses a 112 combo, 275 watts is just enough through a 210 to let me get solid low end and still be heard. I could also do that with 125 watts, but I'd be all mids and highs as I'd have to cut the lows to be audible. We play in standard tuning btw.

    With louder folks, 500 watts of solid state amp plus at least a 600+ rated 410 or 215 is required.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
    bdhoward27 likes this.
  18. Also this.
     
    bdhoward27 likes this.
  19. Also have a low G on my 5th string lol. It should be taken care of this week.... then we'll see what happens I guess. Thank you for your help
     
  20. Yeah. No doubt. Can't afford to be stupid and harm the cab. I'm learning drop C + overdrive is reckless enough...
     

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