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Can the President go there?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Munjibunga, Jan 3, 2012.


  1. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I was just wondering if the President of the United States has access to any military base or other federal facility that he would want to visit? For instance, could he go to Area 51 or S4 and look at anything he wanted to? (Maybe he'll come see me.) If not, under whose authority would he be denied access? He is the Commander-in-Chief, after all.

    I'm interested in hearing from people who might actually know the answer to this, but what the heck, everybody just jump in. True believers welcome, too.
     
  2. Lee H

    Lee H

    Nov 30, 2011
    Redding CA
    never being president, I cannot say for sure...but I would think that since he is technically commander of all military branches, he can do as he wishes (within confines of the constitution) on all military installments
     
  3. kserg

    kserg

    Feb 20, 2004
    London, UK
    I think the movie independence day had a good insight on this subject.
     
  4. EricF

    EricF Habitual User

    Sep 26, 2005
    Pasadena, CA
    My best guess...The whole "Commander-in-Chief" thing means he has a backstage pass to anywhere he wants.
     
  5. 6jase5

    6jase5 Mammogram is down but I'm working manually

    Dec 17, 2007
    San Diego/LA
    Hold on, let me adjust my tinfoil umbrella....ok....now I can type. 10010010101010010010, no wait, I remember watching a show a few years back in which they basically went over your exact question, does the President have absolute authority over anything deemed US government run? Can he say "Jeeves, fire up Airforce One we're heading to see .....!!" The answer was absolutely, without a doubt, 100%, almost. The question is whether or not the President actually knows about every existing black op installation, interrogation point, R&D facility, etc. More or less, is there really a book of "Bet you didn't know THIS existed Mr, Pres." handed to each president and the answer is, not really.

    Therefore, I think that the answer is yes, he has the authority, but it's unknown what is unknown. If we know, he knows, but some things might have existed for 10+ years, appropriated and finance trail buried regimes ago.....hold on, I hear a knock at the door......
     
  6. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Well, when I make President, the first place I'm going is S4. Even I don't have clearance to get in there.
     
  7. colcifer

    colcifer Esteemed Nitpicker Supporting Member

    Feb 10, 2010
    A Galaxy Far, Far Away
    Some places have a need-to-know policy so conservative they don't even tell the White House what they're up to. Clinton had to sue Area 51 to get information out of them. I haven't the slightest idea how accountability works in this system but hopefully these guys are making some seriously cool ****.
     
  8. kserg

    kserg

    Feb 20, 2004
    London, UK
    Not just some movie man... ID4! :D
     
  9. kserg

    kserg

    Feb 20, 2004
    London, UK
    On serious note:

    PART 1 — ORIGINAL CLASSIFICATION

    Section 1.1. Classification Standards.

    (a)   Information may be originally classified under the terms of this order only if all of the following conditions are met:
     
    (1)   an original classification authority is classifying the information;
    (2)   the information is owned by, produced by or for, or is under the control of the United States Government;
    (3)   the information falls within one or more of the categories of information listed in section 1.4 of this order; and
    (4)   the original classification authority determines that the unauthorized disclosure of the information reasonably could be expected to result in damage to the national security, which includes defense against transnational terrorism, and the original classification authority is able to identify or describe the damage.
    (b)   If there is significant doubt about the need to classify information, it shall not be classified. This provision does not:
     
    (1)   amplify or modify the substantive criteria or procedures for classification; or
    (2)   create any substantive or procedural rights subject to judicial review.
    (c)   Classified information shall not be declassified automatically as a result of any unauthorized disclosure of identical or similar information.
    (d)   The unauthorized disclosure of foreign government information is presumed to cause damage to the national security.


    Sec. 1.2. Classification Levels.

    (a)   Information may be classified at one of the following three levels:
     
    (1)   “Top Secret” shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security that the original classification authority is able to identify or describe.
    (2)   “Secret” shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security that the original classification authority is able to identify or describe.
    (3)   “Confidential” shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause damage to the national security that the original classification authority is able to identify or describe.
    (b)   Except as otherwise provided by statute, no other terms shall be used to identify United States classified information.
    (c)   If there is significant doubt about the appropriate level of classification, it shall be classified at the lower level.


    Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority.

    (a)   The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by:
     
    (1)   the President and the Vice President;
    (2)   agency heads and officials designated by the President; and
    (3)   United States Government officials delegated this authority pursuant to paragraph (c) of this section.
    (b)   Officials authorized to classify information at a specified level are also authorized to classify information at a lower level.
    (c)   Delegation of original classification authority.
     
    (1)   Delegations of original classification authority shall be limited to the minimum required to administer this order. Agency heads are responsible for ensuring that designated subordinate officials have a demonstrable and continuing need to exercise this authority.
    (2)   “Top Secret” original classification authority may be delegated only by the President, the Vice President, or an agency head or official designated pursuant to paragraph (a)(2) of this section.
    (3)   “Secret” or “Confidential” original classification authority may be delegated only by the President, the Vice President, an agency head or official designated pursuant to paragraph (a)(2) of this section, or the senior agency official designated under section 5.4(d) of this order, provided that official has been delegated “Top Secret” original classification authority by the agency head.
    (4)   Each delegation of original classification authority shall be in writing and the authority shall not be redelegated except as provided in this order. Each delegation shall identify the official by name or position.
    (5)   Delegations of original classification authority shall be reported or made available by name or position to the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office.
    (d)   All original classification authorities must receive training in proper classification (including the avoidance of over-classification) and declassification as provided in this order and its implementing directives at least once a calendar year. Such training must include instruction on the proper safeguarding of classified information and on the sanctions in section 5.5 of this order that may be brought against an individual who fails to classify information properly or protect classified information from unauthorized disclosure. Original classification authorities who do not receive such mandatory training at least once within a calendar year shall have their classification authority suspended by the agency head or the senior agency official designated under section 5.4(d) of this order until such training has taken place. A waiver may be granted by the agency head, the deputy agency head, or the senior agency official if an individual is unable to receive such training due to unavoidable circumstances. Whenever a waiver is granted, the individual shall receive such training as soon as practicable.
    (e)   Exceptional cases. When an employee, government contractor, licensee, certificate holder, or grantee of an agency who does not have original classification authority originates information believed by that person to require classification, the information shall be protected in a manner consistent with this order and its implementing directives. The information shall be transmitted promptly as provided under this order or its implementing directives to the agency that has appropriate subject matter interest and classification authority with respect to this information. That agency shall decide within 30 days whether to classify this information.




    There is more articles to this, search for: Executive Order 13526
     
  10. Johnny Fila

    Johnny Fila Formerly "The Crusader" Supporting Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Elmont, NY (near NYC)
    2 words Mr. President: Plausible deniability.
     
  11. Johnny Fila

    Johnny Fila Formerly "The Crusader" Supporting Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Elmont, NY (near NYC)
    I must ask Munji, where do you work?
    and what is S4?
     
  12. LiquidMidnight

    LiquidMidnight

    Dec 25, 2000
    I know a guitarist who was an engineer who helped design a component for a stealth aircraft (I think it was the B-2, but it may have been the F-117). Information was kept so tight that he didn't even know what his work was supposed to be for until afterwards.

    P.S. While we're on the subject, what does everyone think of shortwave radio number stations?
     
  13. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I'd like to know who's going to tell the President that he can't go to a military installation when part of his job title is "Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces."
     
  14. I know some defense based engineers. Depending on the level of secrecy, they can end up designing something without much information on the overall project.

    Keeping the people in the know to a minimum!
     
  15. when I was in the army, S4 was where I went to get toilet paper and light bulbs...
     
  16. there is a general that is associated with first implementing compartmentalization of information. It was around the time of the manhattan project IIRC. just like you said, there were several different entities operating on orders that did not spell out the final result, just what was necessary for them to know.
     
  17. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I don't work. S4 is where the alien spacecraft are kept.
     
  18. can God make a rock so big that he cannot lift it?
     
  19. I think he can -- if he knows of the location... That's one way to hide stuff from anyone.
     

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