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Cant figure this note out??

Discussion in 'Technique [BG]' started by 1dreday, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. 1dreday

    1dreday Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2009
    In Di Bartolo"s serious electric bass pg20. Bottom line 3rd bar heres a photo ImageUploadedByTalkBass1405392229.136983. ImageUploadedByTalkBass1405392237.419906.
    Its running through chromatic scales but theres no Fb right?
  2. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player Banned

    Nov 13, 2009
    Somewhere on the Alaska Panhandle (Juneau)
    Endorser: Plants vs. Zombies Pea Shooters
    Enharmonic spelling of "E natural" - 2nd fret, D-String.
  3. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player Banned

    Nov 13, 2009
    Somewhere on the Alaska Panhandle (Juneau)
    Endorser: Plants vs. Zombies Pea Shooters
    Also... someone INCORRECTLY labeled the two notes preceding the "F" as "A, Ab" when they are actually "G, Gb".
  4. 1dreday

    1dreday Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2009
    That was my bad i fixed them are you saying that the Fb is just the E and should be transcribed as an E or would it be noted as a Fb?
  5. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player Banned

    Nov 13, 2009
    Somewhere on the Alaska Panhandle (Juneau)
    Endorser: Plants vs. Zombies Pea Shooters
    Tricky question you have.

    It could be either way. I think the intention, of the book, is to indicate that the direction of the bass line is going down, and to introduce you to the concept of "enharmonic" note spellings.

    It could be either way - "F-flat" or "E-natural" - in this case.

    Be aware that "F-flat" and "E-natural" sound the same. And so does "C-flat" and "B-natural".

    This is probably a good time to also let you know that "E-sharp" and "F-natural" sound the same. And so does "B-sharp" and "C-natural".

    Get to a piano keyboard and you will see that there are TWO pairs of white-keys that have NO black key between them.

    This will help you visualize these enharmonics.

    Get ready for Double Sharps and Double Flats!
    huckleberry1 likes this.
  6. 1dreday

    1dreday Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2009
    Thank that helps
  7. INTP


    Nov 28, 2003
    Dallas, TX
    I glanced at my copy of that book and I really don't get why he used Fb instead of E, since it's descending chromatic scale. There are some contexts where it is appropriate to call it Fb, but I don't personally think this is one of them. The way he does it in the first example on that page is appropriate, using natural or sharp notes for ascending chromatic scale, and natural or flat notes for descending chromatic scale.

    FWIW, I think there's another mistake in the bar before the one you asked about, where the notation is A for the 3rd and 4th beats of that measure but he labels the frets as 2 and 1, respectively. I think the note of the 4th beat should be Ab. I would fix it and chalk it up to an editing mistake.

    Good for you for paying attention :)
  8. 1dreday

    1dreday Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2009
    I totally saw thAt and couldnt figureout that either , why would i finger the B with my 1 finger for one note then finger it with finger #2 for the very next note, makes feel lik im not as slow as i thought , to catch these two abnormalities
    Thanks for the response
  9. DiabolusInMusic

    DiabolusInMusic Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism Supporting Member

    It's an F flat. The reason it is used is because the scale it is in requires an F. When writing diatonic scales you always use all seven letters, sometimes you have to use F flat in order to have an F in the scale. Sometimes it will be a C flat.

    Tonally it is the same as an E and you would rarely use the term F flat. There are also double-flats and double-sharps when needed.

    I hope that helps.
  10. INTP


    Nov 28, 2003
    Dallas, TX
    The example in the book is NOT a diatonic scale, but rather a descending chromatic scale starting on a B, (although I don't see how the starting point matters).
  11. ChrisDev

    ChrisDev Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2009
    Ritter Instruments Team & Owner BassLessons.be
    For me the starting point is important with a chromatic scale.
    I look at the chromatic scale as a diatonic scale with "connecting" notes.
    You start from a major or minor scale depending on the musical context.

    Examples starting from a major scale
    Chromatic Scales.
    From Wikipedia:
  12. Wissen


    Nov 11, 2007
    Central PA
    To summarize the Wikipedia quote above, notes like F flat are generally dictated by keys and modes in theory only. When you are playing in A flat minor, the flatted sixth scale degree will have to be written as F flat. As in the quote above, no letter name is used twice (I take issue with the use of "scale degree" there, because scale degree refers to the number, not the note name - the 6th is a scale degree, not F flat - but that is neither here nor there).

    In your exercise book, though, if you are just descending down a chromatic scale, either F flat or E natural would be acceptable, since chromatic scales don't prescribe sharps and flats. It boils down to the choice the author made when he was writing this book, and nothing more.
  13. Happynoj


    Dec 5, 2006
    I like turtles.
    As others have said, while E and Fb sound the same, they have their uses in music theory.

    For example, a scale of D harmonic minor is D, E, F, G, A, Bb, C#, D. Note that it uses every individual note. You could write the same scale out as D, Fb, E#, G, A, A#, Db, D. It would sound the same, but it would not be the same scale - a harmonic minor scale must have every note in the correct order.

    Now move that original D harmonic minor scale down a semitone (or half-step for those of you on the wrong side of the Atlantic...) and you have a scale of Db harmonic minor. As it is a harmonic minor scale, the same rules apply - and you must use every note in sequential order. This time the scale will be Db, Eb, Fb, Gb, Ab, Bbb, C, Db. This scale is full of enharmonics (notes with different names that sound the same) - Db is the same as C#, Eb is the same as D#, Fb is the same as E, Gb is the same as F#, Ab is the same as G#, Bbb (that's B double flat, i.e. like a normal flat but flattened twice so down a full tone) is the same as A, C is the same as B#, and then you are back to the Db/C#.

    Now take the enharmonics I just listed: C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B#, C#. This scale will sound exactly the same as a scale of Db minor, but because of the notes used, it is a scale of C# minor.

    Now extending this into writing music down, in the key of D minor your basic triad (1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the scale) will be D, F and A. Move that down a half step to the triad of Db, and you get Db, Fb and Ab. You could write that Fb out as an E, but then it wouldn't be the key of Db minor, because Db minor does not have an E natural.

    Hopefully that all makes sense.

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