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Can't hear my Jazz

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by chris4001asat, Dec 15, 2003.


  1. chris4001asat

    chris4001asat

    Dec 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    Warehouse Manager : Reverend Guitars
    I received a Geddy Lee Jazz for my birthday. I love the way it looks and plays. I also love the way it sounds by itself. But when I play with my band, I just can't hear it as well as my other bass. Granted, my other bass is a G&L ASAT. But still, I turn up louder, I can see the speakers moving more. It seems with my ASAT, they don't move as much. I even installed the J-retro. It helped some, but not as much as I'd hope. I have a Super Redhead with a Big Ben on the bottom. My EQ settings are flat, except I have the low mids boosted. My ASAT sounds great "in the mix". Nice and full...Any other suggestions? Different pickups maybe? Boost or decrease a different frequency? I took the stock strings off and tried the Will Lee signature strings. I use either Slowounds or TI Powerbass on my ASAT.
     
  2. You can boost the low mids.
    But, IMO you should favour the bridge pickup instead of keeping both pickups flats, it helps!!!
    This is good for fingerstyle to nail the Jazz sound alla Jaco
     
  3. jdombrow

    jdombrow Supporting Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    Colorado Springs, CO
    I agree. You just need to change your tone controls to boost the mids and highs (either on the bass or at the amp). Bass players love the sound of low bass, but if you want to be heard, the midrange is what cuts through.
     
  4. RicPlaya

    RicPlaya

    Apr 22, 2003
    Whitmoretucky MI
    Do you run your ASAT active or passive?
     
  5. I wouldn't think the jazz p/ups are putting out as much lows as the G&L either, so the presence wouldn't be there in the mix for that with the same EQ settings. What really makes the jazz cut through are the mids and high mids I would think.
     
  6. Woodboy

    Woodboy

    Jun 9, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    Chris,
    I, too, am not crazy about my Jazz in the mix. I started a thread about this last Spring. Lots of J-Retro advice (which I didn't take), lots of tone tweaking (which I tried), and quite a few players who said the Jazz sound just doesn't sit in the mix very well. It seems to me that the single-coil Jazz pickups are just a little thin sounding in the context of a band. Your ASAT has a humbucker, no? I am not all that familiar with G&L basses. It is my feeling that a humbucker is what is needed to really kick the band. I am currently building myself an alder P-style guitar to see if my hypothesis is correct. Jamerson and Dunn both played alder P-Basses and it is hard to find other players who kicked it more than these guys in the soul/r&b/blues vein. I use Aero pickups in my basses and the type 1 Jazz set is one big humbucker when both pickups are full on. Still, I have this feeling that a P Bass is what I need to get the sound I hear in my head.
     
  7. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    I noticed a big difference in gain and "punch" when I changed Slowounds for another string (I can't remember which it was, I think Warwick) on my MIM Jazz. With the new strings, I had to turn up the volume on the amp. You could try the Slowounds on the Geddy and see if it gets any better.
     
  8. You also have to EQ the amp for each bass.

    Playing an ASAT through your rig will not sound the same as the Geddy. Favor the bridge pickup just a snijj, EQ the amp, and try new strings. And if still possible turn up the amp. (boos the high mids too):bassist:
     
  9. RicPlaya

    RicPlaya

    Apr 22, 2003
    Whitmoretucky MI
    That's what I am getting at. Also the G&L's have that cool active/passive switch. If your bass has that make sure you run the ASAT on passive to balance the basses better. But the thing is your dealing with two different basses, they need thier own adjustments on the EQ.
     
  10. chris4001asat

    chris4001asat

    Dec 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    Warehouse Manager : Reverend Guitars
    In answer to all the questions here.....I run my ASAT active, but with the Jretro installed, that makes the Geddy active as well, I think! I'll definitely try using more bridge pickup. I think I've heard that before somewhere as well about Jazzes. As far as boosting frequencies, I'm scared of boosting too much in fear of blowing a speaker. I already have the low mids boosted, would it be bad to boost the lows as well for the "oomph" factor? I don't think I've fooled with the high mids much. So I'll try more bridge pickup tonight. If still not happy, I'll have to get over my cheapness and replace the almost new strings with the slowounds:D Thanks for all your help! Keep your thoughts coming!
     
  11. the P is around 12k dc resistance
    both J's on are around 3 k..and 6 each...
    the P is just (P)owerful i imho because of this and its position at scale/6 sweet spot...
    and despite this there are hot P pups...:eek:
     
  12. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    <b>Hmm, your ASAT puts out a frequency balance that you like, and it doesn't hurt your speakers. So why is EQ'ing another bass such that it puts out the same frequency balance going to hurt the same speaker, unless the EQ is so radical that it creates a bunch of noise and/or distortion?

    I'd suggest also trying frequency cuts, not just boosts. A lot of EQs respond better to that approach, IME.</b>
     
  13. chris4001asat

    chris4001asat

    Dec 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    Warehouse Manager : Reverend Guitars
    That makes sense, however, it just seems like when I get the Jazz sounding to how I like it, the speakers are moving quite a bit more than with my ASAT
     
  14. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    That makes sense, however, it just seems like when I get the Jazz sounding to how I like it, the speakers are moving quite a bit more than with my ASAT

    <b>Maybe the pre in your Jazz has a different low frequency rollof than the ASAT? I've seen that extra excursion happen in the preamps I build myself. I'm not sure how you can best test for this, short of finding an oscilloscope and a friendly tech.
     
  15. Thumper

    Thumper Supporting Member

    Mar 22, 2000
    Layton, UT
    I'm having the same problem with my 51P Benavente. It is the only passive bass I use, and even run through a Fodera 2000 outboard, it doesn't have much punch/volume. It is a P/J with Aero P & DiMarzio Ultra Jazz PUPs. I've changed from SIT stainless to D'addario nickels and will give it a go at practice tonite, I'm also going to raise the PUPs a touch.

    I've just ordered a Bassbone, it has a setup to run an active bass in channel 1, and a passive in channel 2, with an active 3 band EQ in channel 2, and it also has a level control and boost function. I have high hopes this'll do it. If so, my '66J and '75P may come out of storage!
     
  16. hammer2748

    hammer2748

    Feb 22, 2002
    Hartford, CT
    On my Jazz (Std, not Geddy), I push the mids and I seem to be cutting through the mix okay in most rooms. There are some instances where the acoustics are less than desirable and then I start getting into trouble in the mix at which point I either go to my P-bass or my ESP. The ESP is my primary during most performances anyway, but I love the sound of the J and the J neck feels awesome, so I try to utilize it some degree.

    As for strings, all my basses have DR's (Fat Beams).
     
  17. theaterbass29

    theaterbass29

    Nov 14, 2003
    Nashville, Tennesse
    Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Sadowsky, D.Markley, Spector
    I disagree with Chris (above) about boosting to make your Geddy sound like the G+L, without hurting the speakers. It seems that the Geddy, maybe having to do with the J retro, is inducing some lower frequency that your G+L doesnt produce, that is causing your woofer to work so hard. It is inherent that you first find this frequency and cut it. Once you have done this, you should be able to boost your overall signal back up to the level you normally play at, and attain the sound you are looking for. Also, I do agree with all players about favoring the bridge pickup, however, to some ears, especially on its own with nothing else in the mix, this can sound very nasal, and almost not like a bass at all. The jazz was designed to be used with both pickups on full, and to act as a giant humbucker, working in a larger magnetic field than the P bass. Thus obtaining a fuller sound frequency wise. You should be able to get a great sound with both pickups on full, but you will have to find your problem frequency first, and cut it, then boost overall. Here is a great way that I have found to do this if you have parametric eq. Go to your low mid para eq and boost all the way up, or at least 3/4. Take your sweep control and sweep it the entire spectrum until you find a hot spot, in other words a frequency that is louder that all others. That frequency will be your trouble frequency and the one you will want to cut. If you have a Q control, you may want to experiment with whether you want a broad sweep that will effect more than just that frequency around it, or whether you just want a narrow cut that will pinpoint only your trouble frequency. Once you have done this, you should be able to turn your amp up to bring the bass up to the same level as your ASAT. One final note, if your ASAT has the sound you like, play it. It is a good idea to have a second bass, or even many different basses for different sounds, but for the most part, this only works in contrast when you are playing with different people and different instruments who have different sounds themselves. I will give you an example. Most of us like certain bass players in certain bands. These are people they play with all of the time, using the same drum sounds, the same guitar sounds, and the so on, on each record. They usually will use the same bass, because they have found one that would cut through on their albums and help each band acheive their own, unique sound. James Jamerson played the same sunburst 62 Precision for almost every recording he did at Motown, with exeption to his old upright, mostly because he played with the same players all the time. However, in Nashville, studio players will bring anywhere from 3 to 10 basses to a session, because they are constantly playing with different players, and going for different sounds.
    This reply is getting to long and probably boring some folks, but in short, if your G+L gets the tone you like for your band, use it and be proud of the sound you are getting with that bass, and save the Geddy for when you need THAT SOUND.
     
  18. theaterbass29

    theaterbass29

    Nov 14, 2003
    Nashville, Tennesse
    Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Sadowsky, D.Markley, Spector
    Im sorry, Passinthewind was whom I was objecting to, not chris, as chris is the person that started the thread. Hope my suggestions help you Chris, and to Passin, dont take my comments in any other way as just to help Chris by offering a difference of opinion.