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Carol Kaye Controversey Solved?

Discussion in 'Bassists [BG]' started by Phil Smith, Mar 3, 2003.


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  1. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    I was reading the Soapbox page of Bass Player, the December 2002 issue, written by Bob Babbitt called, "Who Played Bass?". This article, IMO, explains why Carol Kaye would indicate that she played bass on a particular track even the the official credit is given to another player, notably James Jamerson. Here's an excerpt:

     
  2. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck

    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta / Macon (sigh)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    When this whole fiasco was brought up, I thought about the possiblity of re-cuts, but in the beginning, it seemed like that the idea of it never occurred to her.
     
  3. LiquidMidnight

    LiquidMidnight

    Dec 25, 2000
    Exactly what I always thoughts. I do believe that Carol probaly played on some of the tracks but they were either recut or she was playing on demo's.

    Still, you would think you know what you sound like. Carol Kaye is a pick player and James Jamerson is fingerstyle player who use to play on dead strings. Don't you think there would be enough difference, just in tone not to mistake who played?
     
  4. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    Courtesy of Allan Slutsky, (who at this point would be quite the authority), from http://www.bassland.net/jamerson.html

    Continued....
     
  5. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    ..... Continued
     
  6. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    ... continued

     
  7. There's no doubt (in my mind) that Jamerson did play on most of those tracks. Just listening to the tone and style played in those songs is enough proof for me.
     
  8. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Wow. I didn't realise there was all that controversy over who played on those songs.

    I also didn't realise Jamerson died a lonely alcoholic.

    That's so sad.
     
  9. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck

    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta / Macon (sigh)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    I know that she played on some songs, but I find it amazing that you can tell pick playing from Osborne, Squire, and Macca, but her pick playing sounds like fingerstyle. Not only that, but her pick playing sounds like the other basslines that Jamerson played with his fingers. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    From Carol's site:

     
  11. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    I don't know, Phil. I'm gonna take Slutsky's argument over Carol's. Simply because Slutsky was researching this and talking to many many people, not just Carol and one interviewer.

    I also had a lengthy (internet-based) conversation with Harry Weinger, a producer of the Standing in the Shadows of Motown movie soundtrack. He had access to the masters for Bernadette, and it seems pretty difficult to credit them to anybody but James. Especially considering the fact that he listened to several different takes, to produce the instrumental version on the SITSOM soundtrack.

    Still, while we'll never know for sure, the consensus amongst the industry insiders seems to give Jamerson credit for the line.

    It's just too bad they didn't keep better records, huh?
     
  12. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    Hey! I did the bass solo on the original recording of The Who's "My Generation"!!!

    Don't believe me??? Just ask John Entwistle.
     
  13. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    Well, SMASH ---- I invented Whistler, when I wasn't dating that babe Maggie Trudeau....before she hooked up with Jagger!!! :eek:
     
  14. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    Aye caramba...possibly the most sarcastic post I've read here.
    Keep up the stellar work, 'Chuck!
    ;)
     
  15. Davehenning

    Davehenning

    Aug 9, 2001
    Los Angeles
    I could be wrong, but I believe that Carol Kaye was the bassist on the music for the Brady Bunch show . Listen to the bumper music to get a great example of her tone. You can hear the flatwounds with the pick sound.
     
  16. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    Agreed.
    Listen to "Hikky-Burr" from Quincy Jones' Smackwater Jack album.
    IMO(as I've said before)-
    ..the sorta "funk" feel played on the above tune is not the same as that of the Motown stuff.
     
  17. DigMe

    DigMe

    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    Yeaah!! Another Carol Kaye thread!

    :spit: :spit: :spit:

    brad cook
     
  18. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    Ahhh this brings me back to my very first post. I believe it was titled "Carol Kaye and her 'ridiculous advice'" in which I asked how she could say the wood of a bass has no effect on it's sound among other things...that thread is now locked.

    The memories. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    What about this clip of "I was made to love her" that's on her site?

    Clip
     
  20. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings

    That would go more to the question: "Can" she play the line, not "did" she? Unless of course this is the bass track from the original recording;)

    I wouldn't bet my life one way or another...there's just something about this recording that doesn't ring true vs. the full version I just listened to. Not sure how to describe it, there just seems that some of the "bounce" of the original line is missing, while the notes may indeed be the same. It's like whenever I've heard people, including myself, try to nail some of the stuff Anthony Jackson plays, or Rocco for that matter. The notes may be correct but the feel is off just enough to make me feel like I'm not listening to the originator.

    If that makes sense.
     



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