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Carvin 10" Driver Failures?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by MikeyD, Dec 19, 2001.


  1. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Has anyone else experienced their 10" Carvin bass drivers failing? Earlier this year, one of the tens in my RC210 combo developed a coil rub (a faint but noticeable shuffle-type sound on lower notes). I took the driver out and determined that it was rubbing slightly, so I bought a replacement driver from Carvin. A few months ago, one of the drivers developed the same problem (I haven't determined which one yet). I'm curious if any other Carvin owners have had similar experiences. If I find that it is the new (replacement) one with the problem (after carefully filtering the extreme lows so they don't hit the speakers), I'm going to be really tempted to replace the RC210. I don't abuse these speakers at all.
    - Mike
     
  2. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    Ugh... Carvin speaker, cabinet, ANYTHING!!! [​IMG]

    Now, Carvin poweramps, not to mention me just acquiring one yesterday, a DCM2000 to be exact...[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  3. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    DC
    I played through my RC210 for over a year and never had a problem.
     
  4. I have a Carvin V-410 that I bought used in '95, and I have never had a problem with it.
     
  5. seamus

    seamus

    Feb 8, 2001
    Jersey
    I wonder if they used better stuff back in the day, and the current drivers are not cutting it.
     
  6. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    The 4x10 on my Carvin stack has been getting the poop pushed out of it for over a year and comes back for more every week. Maybe it just happens that they used better Eminence's when it was made.

    That R600 they mate with that poor little 2x10 is just sadistic.

    Since you've also been to Edenland, Mike - my 210XLT takes a licking and keeps on ticking, FWIW.
     
  7. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    Been using my carvin 210 cab alot in the last 2 years with no problems, and I haven't babied it at all. I consider it a workhorse.
     
  8. Hey Mike,
    That's interesting. I haven't experienced that in a bass guitar cab, but I've seen lots of sub and mid drivers in PA cabs do it. I'm not entirely sure what causes it, though. Overexcursion, warping due to heat, magnet shift? Of course, if you're not abusing them it makes those things unlikely. I mostly see this after a PA has been given an intense workout by some poser "mixing" a national act. You know, the guy who tries to mask his inability to mix by being excruciatingly loud ( lead kick drum, etc.). Sorry about that little rant, that just bothers me.... Who actually makes the drivers?
     
  9. tornadobass

    tornadobass Supporting Member

    Nov 20, 2000
    Iowa City, Iowa
    Endorsing Artist: Black Diamond & SuperSensitive strings
    I've used a RL210T for a few years (two blues gigs/month) and now a MP210T. Neither has had any problem with the speakers.

    These cabs get lots of compliments for their sound from guys in the band and the players who hear them at a gig. Good value, too, and easy to carry around.

    I hope to try Eden/SWR etc. someday, but I'm not sure that the difference would be that huge compared to the price of the cabs. A used Carvin 2x10 goes for about $200 these days.

    -Dan
     
  10. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Thanks for the replies, guys. Nice rhyme, huh? Seems like most of your 10" drivers have been hanging tough. Anyway, I haven't isolated the bad actor yet, but I stuck my ear into the cones last night, and I think it is the other original 10" driver. The replacement one seems okay, I think. This says to me that either (a) the original suffered whatever damage the other original did before I replaced it or (b) both original drivers were in a bad batch from the factory and couldn't handle some of the more challenging signals I've given them. If so, it doesn't exactly make me too happy. I bought the RC210 new in March 2000, BTW.

    If I do wind up replacing it, right now it looks like either an Eden 210T or 410T will do it. Either has a really warm sound and would be a perfect complement for my Eden 215XLT. I've not decided yet on whether I'll fix my Carvin yet.

    - Mike
     
  11. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    If one runs the RC210 mono bridged with the bass cranked up (particularly laying into a low B) into that 2x10, yes - asking for destructo city. I've not done that, but early on I did run it full-range off one channel of my outboard R1000 head. I remember cranking it up a few times to keep up with the drummer and seeing some flickering clip lights. I noticed the coil rub some time after that point, at which time I replaced the driver and then inserted a high-pass filter into the channel that feeds the 2x10 to keep the low bass away from it.

    Great, Rick! I still wanna see you post an appraisal of your Eden stack. You know, "compare and contrast" with your full Carvin stack. Anyway, see my post above - I think a 210T or 410T would be my cup of tea. Nice rhyme, huh? ;)

    - Mike
     
  12. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    I'm fairly sure they're Eminence. Anyway, I totally dig your rant - I've heard more bad PA mixes than I care to remember. Anyway, I haven't analyzed the mechanics of cone/coil suspension but it would seem that overexcursion and thermal stress could both be causative factors in warping the coil assembly. If the quality control of the assembly wasn't good, one might envision the coil sitting non-concentrically (i.e., off-center) in the air gap, and the slightest mechanical or thermal stress might cause it to rub on the magnet or something. That's a real guess, but it seems plausible.
    - Mike
     
  13. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Hey Mike,

    Bad deal on those original drivers. I would suggest that if the amp has been sufficient for you, other than that... try replacing the remaining orginal one on the off chance that they were only a bad batch, and if either of the new ones give out too soon, then move on.

    Another thing to consider. If the amp is sufficiently loud for you, you might replace both speakers with a set that reproduce lows better in that same small box. My understanding is that the trade off would be sheer volume. But you use another amp as well, so maybe it would still be loud enough and reproduce your sound better. Also, if the lows were beating up those Carvin speakers, the replacement speakers may be less apt to break down, since they are made to go lower.

    Good luck on your decision! :)
     
  14. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Bettendorf, IA USA
    Hey Mikey,

    If you are still seeking info, you might want to take a peak or post a string at Carvin's bbs. All of the mods are Carvin employees and seem to know their stuff pretty well. And since it is pretty much a Carvin love feast, PR tool, a little truth in advertising might be all they need to shoot you an e-mail offering to fix you up. Who knows? You amp seems pretty new to be replacing drivers.

    For what it is worth, I played a Carvin 410 redeye for a while with an R600. Never had any problems with the drivers although the cabinet wasn't very load for the amount of juice I was pushing.

    Chas
     
  15. I've seen plenty of coils that weren't centered in the gap. Peavey speakers spring to mind...It's fairly common in cheaper speakers, and very common in recones done by people not properly trained.
     
  16. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Thanks, Gabu - good advice. Awhile back I was eyeing Eminence Delta-10A drivers as replacements, because they have significantly higher sensitivity (99 vs. 95 dB) and power handling (300 vs. 200 watts) . I may revisit this idea. Another factor that bugs me (only slightly) is that the RC210 doesn't "fit" quite right atop the Eden 2x15, so looks a little silly. The corners don't interlock, either - a problem that wouldn't exist with an Eden 2x10 or 4x10. In terms of loudness, you are right. As I've said in numerous other posts, the Carvins aren't that efficient, so I have needed to pump exorbitant amounts of power into them. Fortunately I am no longer working with that drummer (he used to break his cymbals playing so loud!) and my ears are much happier. The RC210 is a nice combo, though. I'm just not ready to spend a lot of money, but if I do spend it, it has to be the right decision. It's obvious that I will have to do something about the bad driver, so maybe I really should just bite the bullet and replace them both with better drivers and see how it goes. Or I could cut my losses and set the RC210 aside and get an Eden 210 or 410. I'd probably want to "retire" the Carvin box and scab the R600 head out of it as a backup head. Decisions, decisions.

    - Mike
     
  17. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Thanks for the input. It seems almost unanimous here in TB that Carvin cabs aren't that efficient. Anyway - I do lurk on the Carvin board, but am not registered. I agree with your points about it. The most I'd expect Carvin would do is replace the drivers with the same model (but they are now long out of warranty). When it comes to the idea of upgrading driver quality and bass cabinet design, Carvin hasn't seemed too responsive to people. As I've said in other posts, it is certainly their prerogative - they may be making enough income on their existing designs not to mess with it, and they may not want to get into competing with higher-end manufacturers. It's a bit odd to me, because I suspect their R-series heads compare well with almost any other SS heads on the market.

    - Mike
     
  18. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Thanks, Space. Aside from raw power handling, I don't think Carvin uses the best drivers. They sell their PS10 10" drivers for US$50. They must be purchasing them (in bulk) for less than $40, I would expect. The better Eminence drivers seem to start at around $90 and go up from there. You might put two and two together: the PS10 is probably a good driver *for the money*, but it ain't much money, so it ain't much driver. So maybe I did get two from a bad run on the assembly line. I ought to do a post-mortem on one and see if I can tell anything about this centering problem.
    - Mike
     
  19. tornadobass

    tornadobass Supporting Member

    Nov 20, 2000
    Iowa City, Iowa
    Endorsing Artist: Black Diamond & SuperSensitive strings
    Two other thoughts about the Carvin cab. First, I've had the jack get dirty so that it crackles a bit, as does the L-Pad for the horn. Might need to squirt those every so often or push the plug in and other a few times.

    Second, you will get some air movement noise out of the extension jack, as you would from many other cabs (SWR includes rubber plugs on some cabs). I keep a foam earplug stuck in the extension jack of all my cabs and the noise is gone.

    -Dan
     
  20. mikemulcahy

    mikemulcahy

    Jun 13, 2000
    The Abyss
    Arent speaker problems fun Mikey?:mad: What high pass filter did you use?


    Mike