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Carvin BRX212 or Eden Nemesis

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by CraigG, Apr 22, 2006.


  1. CraigG

    CraigG

    Mar 14, 2006
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    I'm really stuck. I don't have deep pockets but want to get a good quality amp. I have narrowed my search down to a Carvin BRX212 or Eden Nemesis (still not totally decided on model but leaning toward NS210 or NS212).

    I'm hearing great things from both camp's forums. I really like the Carvin BRX212 design and the price sits well with my budget. Plus it has a LOT of power. But I'm a little bothered that any warranty work would require that the amp be sent back to Carvin. A BIG negative should it ever be needed.

    On the other hand, the Nemesis is a bit more expensive for a 2-12 rig and not nearly as powerful.

    Would anyone here with experience with either manufacturer or, even better, with either rig care to give me some guidance? I play a variety of styles - from backing the gospel choir at my church to playing Christian rock with my band to doing jazz with other local musicians.

    Thanks in advance!

    Craig
     
  2. BBMS

    BBMS

    Jun 29, 2005
    I have used (my students use it) a BRX212 for this school year, and it has served its purpose quite well. I had Wolfehollow play on it, and perhaps he can comment on it as well. MY
     
  3. Standalone

    Standalone

    Jan 17, 2005
    New Haven
    a lotta gospel guys and gals play eden...

    so do I...
     
  4. Wolfehollow

    Wolfehollow

    Jan 21, 2003
    Pensacola, FL
    I had the eden equivalent to the carvin you speak of... I think it was a time traveler 12...

    The carvin BBMS has sounded better than I thought it would... by far. I seemed to get more sound out of it than I did with the eden...

    I would probably say the eden stuff is higher quality though... although the nemesis stuff I am not as familiar with.
     
  5. My take is that although there's nothing wrong with the Nemesis stuff, the current Carvin BRX stuff is generally better. That's just my opinion, FWIW. And as for relative quality, I've had the hood off my B1500, and I've opened up the old WT400 I had. There's no way you can convince me the Eden is *better* built. Again, the WT400 is a fine amp, and there are perfectly good reasons for liking it or preferring it to all others, but to me the days of automatically assuming that Eden > Carvin by definition are over.
     
  6. metalbob

    metalbob Supporting Member

    Aug 2, 2004
    so california
    The BRX212 rocks!!!! I had the chance to play one and I tell you what that combo can sure put out some impressive sound nice tone I like the drive knob gives it alittle bit of grit in fact I recently purchased the head B1500 so that is my 2 cents worth good bang for the buck:hyper: :bassist:
     
  7. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    I think you would have to audition both units to really decide - so, you've got good choices!

    I really like the way the Carvin is laid out - they obviously put a lot of thought into the design. The cab configuration is almost identical to My Tech CT 2x12's, which cost me a small fortune, and they kick serious booty. Also, it rolls!! I continue to be amazed at how few bass amps have picked up on the rolling luggage model. With a 1500 as an engine, everything looks pretty much right.

    At 70 lbs, the Carvin probably would be better compared to the Nemesis NC-410. I recently acquired one of these, and they are most excellent. It has no problems driving our 2 guitar+keys R&B unit, with no PA assistance, and has very nearly the precise tone I look for.

    If you've got enough coin and don't mind the hassle, the thing to do would be to buy both and plan to return the one you preferred less. That would probably cost you about an extra $50 - $70, but then you would be sure.
     
  8. +1. This is a good idea if you can manage it.
     
  9. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    Even better is to get the gear out on the gig. My NC-410 came with a 30 day approval period. This will give me chance to get a bunch of gigs with it. However, we already had one, and it performed so well, that the decision is pretty much made up.

    Also, there are little things. I bought the unit used, and a bunch of the knobs had the top with the position indicator knocked off. I called Eden to see about buying replacements, and they shipped me more than I needed at no charge. I realize that is probably cost effective from their POV, but still they're a pretty cool bunch of cats to deal with. I had a similar experience some years ago where they performed some serious upgrades to a VT.25 that I was using (and adored). I ended up going other directions because some other things happened that I believe had to do with the Demeter interaction, and ultimately I didn't like the WT preamp as much. But that's ancient history. I've always had a big respect for the Eden folks from a support perspective, based on experience.
     
  10. Nico3535

    Nico3535

    Mar 8, 2006
    Florida
    Let me tell you this i bought a Nemesis 200w 4x10 combo a few years back and it served me well. But to compare it it my b1500 avatar rig wouldn't be right. I imagine that if the carvin brx combo's are anything like the b1500 then there is no comparison there either.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher

    Apr 28, 2000
    New York, NY
    Anyone worry about the angled 12" on the Carvin? It seems to me that kind of orientation would promote speaker damage. (Then again, Acoustic Image and lots of home theater subwoofers are angled straight down.)
     
  12. i've never tried the carvin bass stuff, but i do have a carvin guitar amp thats great!
    and i do have a nemesis bass rig that's actually pretty good. i know it's cheaper stuff, but it is really good quality stuff for the price. it's pretty loud, and pretty versatile too. but i would definitely go with the 12's instead of the 10's. i tried one of those too, and they just fell way short.
     
  13. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    The 2x10 or 4x10?
    If the 4x10 fell "way short," you probably won't be able to meet your needs with any combo, IMO.
     
  14. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    My Tech CT's have exactly the same layout, although I tend to set up with the angle horizontal rather than vertical. No issue at all. In fact, this design just completely kicks booty. I would not be concerned about that layout.
     
  15. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    The proof is in the pudding. I'd personally want to A/B. Also, I have a lot more confidence in Carvin's electronics than acoustical design. But you'd really have to try both. All things being equal, I would expect 4 10's to move more air than 2 12's, but the enclosure design has a lot to do with the result as well.
     
  16. Just stumbled on this tread .... Interesting that I have a Nemesis 215 (250w 1x15, tweeter), and I just ordered the Carvin BRX212 a week ago (should be here in another week or so).

    I like the Nemesis a lot. It sounds really good with all the eq set flat and the enhance up 25%. Been using it with a Miller Jazz bass and Warwick Thumb 6. It projects sphericly (sp?) - must have something to do with how/what it's put together with. The reason I'm auditioning it against the carvin though is that it's not quite loud enough and the 15" isn't quite quick enough for how I play.

    I definetly like the rollers on the Carvin. And since 99.5% of the time all I need is a good combo, portibility is high on my list. Also everything I've heard about the BRX series has been good.

    I'll post again when I do the A/B.
     
  17. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    That A/B is a good starting point. However, you need to bear in mind that the 4x10 has nearly twice the surface area in the drivers than a 1x15. The 2x12 falls almost in the middle. So, there are some pretty big potential differences. Cone area isn't everything, but it's a reasonable zero point estimate for where the perceived loudness will line up.
     
  18. I didn't really like the nemesis 212, and the better eden 212 is only like 100 dollars more, just buy it.
     
  19. Well, I finally got the BRX212 in yesterday. So after som initial playing arround, I hooked up the good old A/B switch.... Obviously this is not an Apples to Apples test as the BRX212 has 2x12s and the Nemesis has 1x15. So take this for what it's worth. I tested both cabs with a Marcus Miller Jazz and a Warwick Thumb 6 BO BN in my nearly sound proof studio.

    Specs:
    See the manufacturers websites... A Carvin BRX212 and an Eden Nemesis215

    Build & Portability:
    The BRX build quality is impressive. Everything looks and feels solid. I really like the truck-bed like covering, it looks very durable. Certainly more that the rat-fur covering on most other cabs (including the Nemesis). The wheels and lugage handle feel solid as well. The Nemesis, while it has handles on the tops and sides, is tougher to move around (wheels are big here). The build quality on the Nemesis is good, but there are a lot of plastic components - the knobs and the corners, while on the BRX there're all metal.

    Sound:
    I first tested both amps with the EQs set flat, then tweeked later for each bass. Sound wise, the BRX is a lot more focused. I attribute this to the 12" vs 15" speakers and maybe the fact that it's a sealed cab. The tweeter on the BRX is unobtrusive (which is a good thing) and I had the knob set at 50%. The Nemesis doesn't have an adjustable tweeter, but I never thought it was harsh. Obviously the BRX responds faster to quick passeges. The BRX is also a lot louder (rated at 550 watts at 4ohms, while the nemesis is 250w). The Nemesis sounds a little deeper and a little more old-school. It sounds like the cabinet is tuned for a specific sound. It's wierd that I never really noticed it until I did the A/B test. But the BRX sounded a lot more transparent, like I was hearing the bass guatar rather than the Bass Guitar through a specific amp. I noticed the BRX was a lot more articulate in the upper registers, particularly on the 6 string.

    The EQ section of the BRX is pretty straight forward, all the knobs did what they said they would and even at the extremes, didn't make the the sound bad (just different). There are no compressors or other things like that (good - if I want them, I'll add them later). The Drive knob was very interesting and cool ... it didn't add fuzz or distortion, but worked rather like a gain - to make the amp more sensitive to your playing. It also increased the volume of the amp.

    The Nemesis I think has a much more extreme EQ section, I've almost always left it flat and just played with the Enhance knob. I've never used the parametric mid eq live ever (something like this I would have to work with while the band was playing, and farting around with an EQ while your supposed to be playing is not my style...). The Copressor button I've always left in and it never bothered me.

    Bottom line:
    Sound is subjective. But for me, I needed something "clearer" than the Nemesis215. Something more portable and with more power. I think the Carvin has a more usable EQ section and no "bells or whistles" (something I like). So for me, I'm keeping the BRX.

    The Nemesis is a fine little amp, and I'm sure the 4x10 or 2x10 amps sound a lot different. The 215 would be great for old school P-bass like sound or perhaps with fretless. But I personly don't like a Parametric Mid control, nor is the compressor adjustable.
     
  20. Mystic Michael

    Mystic Michael Hip No Ties

    Apr 1, 2004
    New York, NY
    Agreed. I also own a Nemesis NC-410, and recommend it. A much better choice than the Nemesis 2x12.

    That said, I have not heard or played the Carvin BRX212. I do know it's considerably more powerful. And those two 12s are going to project differently than the Nemesis' four 10s.

    The Nemesis has a few more features/options than does the Carvin, which is more stripped down & basic by comparison. And the Nemesis is surprisingly louder & deeper than you might think - due to the specially-constructed, high-sensitivity drivers.

    My speculation: The Nemesis may be a little more versatile, but the Carvin will have more raw power & "oomph!" You probably couldn't go wrong with either choice. Depends on your specific preferences/needs...

    MM
     

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