1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)


Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Dedeer, Feb 22, 2006.

  1. Dedeer


    Feb 28, 2005
    Costa del Sol
  2. Sundogue


    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    "Calling Dr. Gavin..."
  3. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    They're guitar drivers, not suitable for bass.
  4. svtb15


    Mar 22, 2004
    Austin,TX - McKinney,TX - NY,NY, - Nashville,TN
    I play it all. Whatever works for the gig
    actually they make bass drivers too. some of the ashdown amps use celetions as well as the early 1990s Ampeg pro style cabs. I had a 2x10 ampeg pro cab that had celestions.. It was very efficient. much louder and punchier than my eden 2x10.
  5. luknfur


    Jan 14, 2004

    Celestion makes some decent bass speakers but they're 15's. In fact they've got Neo's now I think. You're going to have a hard time finding a 10 with any low end if that's what you're looking for. If that's going to be a midrange cab then will be a cakewalk and you'll have plenty to select from.
  6. Sorry, that's not true. There's an English BL-70 as standard in my Trace Boxer 30 practice amp (even though the amp is MIK) which works surprisingly well, and I thought the Trace quad boxes used BL-series Celestions as well.
  7. Dedeer


    Feb 28, 2005
    Costa del Sol
    Looks like no one used the link i gave. So here are the specs of the BL10-150.

    General specifications
    Nominal diameter 10", 254mm
    Power Rating 150W
    Nominal impedance 8Ω
    Sensitivity 97dB
    Chassis type Pressed steel
    Voice coil diameter 2", 50.8mm
    Cone material Kevlar loaded paper
    Magnet type Ceramic
    Magnet Weight 43oz, 1.22kg
    Frequency range 70-6000Hz
    Resonance frequency, Fs 75Hz
    DC resistance, Re 5.4Ω
    Mounting Information
    Diameter 10.1", 256mm
    Overall depth 4.3", 110mm
    Magnet structure diameter 9.0", 229mm
    Mounting slot dimensions 0.2 x 0.3", 6 x 8mm
    Number of mounting slots 4
    Mounting slot PCD 9.6", 245mm
    Unit weight 8.2lb, 3.7kg

    The frequency range is not to god, i think. Since a low E has a 41hz that means that i won´t be able to hear that note???
  8. WalterBush


    Feb 27, 2005
    Yuma, Az
    Full disclosure, I'm a certified Fender technician working in a music store that carries Fender, Yamaha, and Ibanez products among others.
    That frequency range indicates when the speaker starts to roll off, not when it cuts out completely. The frequency range is also affected by cabinet design, which will restrict, extend, or drastically alter the speaker's natural response characteristics.

    As well, most bass speakers have specs that look like that. Fundamentals are just that--fundamental. The simplest sine wave oscillating at that frequency. There's so much more than 41 Hz going into the sound of a bass guitar E string, that a missing fundamental won't make a bit of difference. I wouldn't worry about it.

    The only effective test of a speaker's sound is to build a box, slap 'em in, and listen. Hopefully, your dealer will have a 30 day return policy on the Celestions if you don't like them. I suspect you will.
  9. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    I did, the 75Hz makes it useless as a bass driver, though the fact it's on a site specific for guitar drivers is also a dead giveaway. In any event you can't just stick some drivers in a box and expect them to work well. You have a lot of research to do before even thinking about specific drivers. Many threads here and elsewhere, and reading a book on loudspeaker design isn't a bad idea either.
  10. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    He asked about the BL10-150, not the BL-70. While seeing the Qts, Vas and Xmax figures is usually helpful, the 75Hz fs in and of itself rules it out as a bass driver. 60Hz is about as high as you can go, and that's still a long way from ideal.
  11. In theory, I agree with you, but do you have the T/S data for the 10" drivers Ampeg use in the SVT 8x10 "fridges"?

    AFAIK, those enclosures have little or no usable fundamental output below about 70~75 Hz, and rely almost entirely on overtones and the ear's ability to "fill in" the bottom octave and achieve their sound.

    And as I indicated above, I'm pretty sure that Trace used the BL-series drivers in their 4x10 boxes.
  12. Dedeer


    Feb 28, 2005
    Costa del Sol
    I was thinking using a cabinet designing software like "winisd".
    That should make things a lot easyer. Still not decided which speakers. Eminence, Electrovoice, Celestion, even JBL seem to be good candidats.
  13. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    They're similar to those of the Eminence Beta 10.
  14. Which, according to the Eminence website (http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/speakers/beta10.htm) are " ... Performance optimized for
    lead guitar ... ". Que???

    The also have a fs of 53 Hz, which is a bit better than the Celestions, but still wouldn't produce much fundamental in the bottom octave (especially on a 5/6 string, where B is ~31 Hz) given the small enclosure each pair is in.

    Which is the SVTs reputation, as I noted above ...
  15. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Irrespective of Eminence's ad gurus trying to make all their drivers look good for all applications (they also recommend the Delta and Gamma 10s for bass, big mistake) the Beta 10 is one of the best tens made for bass. Once you've figured WinISD out you can verify this yourself, the Beta even outperforms the Kappa Pro 10, by a wide margin.
    Fs is only one spec, Qts, xmax and xmech are all just as important, and a safe assumption is that the guitar optimized Celestion would not have bass-friendly specs in those departments either. 53 Hz is adequate for the bass, 75 Hz is not.
    True, but consider the heritage of the SVT. The original was designed prior to the advent of T/S specs, using drivers that were primitive by today's standards, by non-engineers who's response to needing more power was to stick as many drivers as possible into the smallest space. The drivers have changed over the years, but the philosphy of using too many drivers in a box too small to allow them to operate properly has not. Properly loaded the Beta 10 has an f3 of 38Hz, which is a far cry from the SVTs 58Hz f3.
  16. Get some used JBLs off Ebay. You'll get some pro speakers for the cost of some average new ones.