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Change from 6x10 combination to 2x10x15

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by soulgroovn, Feb 12, 2003.


  1. soulgroovn

    soulgroovn

    Oct 25, 2002
    New Haven CT
    I'm currently using an Eden 210XLT and an Ampeg 4x10 and I'm thinking of switching the ampeg with my Eden 15XLT model minus the tweeter. The reason why I'm thinking of a change is because the 6x10 config kicks on stage but I seem to lose the bottom end off the stage fairly quickly. I also know that bass frequencies travel so I've listened from 25 to 40 feet out and it's the same story. I'm hoping that a 15 on the bottom will make the low end travel a little more.

    What difference should I expect from the speaker config change and should matching two cabs from the same manufacturer help me out?

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  2. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    I don't think that having cabs from the same mfr is important at all if they sound good together.

    You didn't mention which Ampeg 410 you have. Assuming it's the SVT410HE which is a sealed cabinet, I'd think that going to a ported Eden 1x15 would be a significant jump in low end output.

    If you don't need to sell one to buy the other, perhaps you ought to try the Ampeg 410 on top of the Eden 1x15 too.

    Also, without spending any money, have you tried placing the Ampeg on top of the Eden? You didn't mention how you stack them but I assumed that the 210XLT is on top. By putting the 210 on the stage, the floor would couple with the port output and strengten the low end.

    One last thing to try is to place the Eden on its side and stack the Ampeg on top of it. Might look weird but I've heard dramatic results with Acme cabinets by creating a vertical array (two 2x10s on their sides stacked vertically).

    If you decide to try any of these arrangements, please let me know how they turned out.

    Oh, one other thing...depending on how you set your EQ, you might want to try boosting 200 Hz a bit. It seems to help quite a bit.
     
  3. soulgroovn

    soulgroovn

    Oct 25, 2002
    New Haven CT
    My Ampeg cab is the HE model and if space permits, I usually place both cabs on the ground. On tighter stages I place the 410 on top of the ported 2x10 so I think I already may be squeezing out as much low end as possible. I don't have to sell one to get the other so I"ll try out some different combinations.

    FYI - Here is my current setup:

    2 1991 Modulus Q5's with 18v EMGs
    Ashdown EVO 500
    Aphex 402
    Eden 2x10XLT (bottom)
    Ampeg 410HE (top)

    I don't have a show for a couple of weeks but I'm going to try the 4x10x15 combo and I'll let everyone know how it goes.


    :cool:
     
  4. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I've used 6x10's for years (see my avatar). But I've just put a 15 into the mix for the same reason as you - with excellent results.

    My 15 (JBL E145) and Eden 2x10 have a similar kick to 6x10 rig, but sounds fatter at a distance. But for some real brute SPL, I use the 15 with the 4x10 - ABSOLUTE MONSTER!!!!!!!!

    If you can afford the new 15 without selling one of your cabs, I'd do that. then mix and match the rigs as required.
     
  5. RevGroove

    RevGroove Commercial User

    Jul 21, 2002
    Burlington ON Canada
    Manager, Account Services: Long & McQuade Ltd. (Burlington); MTD Kingston Basses International Emerging Artist; Bartolini Electronics Emerging Artist
    What do you guys think of stacking a 1x15 on top of a 2x10? When I ran a combo with a 15" speaker with a 2x10 configuration, I got some great results, I think I'm going to try it with my SWR WM cabs that I'm using in my current setup.
     
  6. ihixulu

    ihixulu Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    getting warmer
    The reason why your low end is anemic is becasue the HE is not a very low endy cab.

    Stick a good 410 under the 210 and you shouldn't have a shortage of lows.
     
  7. BLMARTIN

    BLMARTIN

    Jan 31, 2003
    DALLAS, TEXAS
    Let me ask you a ? Do you normally use a PA or monitors? I was in the same situation you were in a few years ago. I had an SWR Goliath 4x10 and 2x10 and swapped out the 2x10 for an SWR Son of Bertha 1x15. We used a PA and everyone told me not to change. I still didn't hear the lows and ignored them. I have since sold the 1x15 and gone back to the 2x10 on top of the 4x10. The reason....My original rig was easy to set up...on wheels..I just rolled it in there and went. When I got the 1x15 I had to pop the wheels off the 4x10 and stack em. The 1x15 some times bottomed out when thumpen on the E string and sure....they may have heard lower lows but I didn't. Let your sound man do his job. If you never use a Pa or monitors then .....ya I gues it may help you.
     
  8. RevGroove

    RevGroove Commercial User

    Jul 21, 2002
    Burlington ON Canada
    Manager, Account Services: Long & McQuade Ltd. (Burlington); MTD Kingston Basses International Emerging Artist; Bartolini Electronics Emerging Artist
    I've been finding lately that most sound guys don't KNOW their job when it comes to bass (and in some cases, mixing in general) unless they're a bass player or musician themselves. They're actually afraid to mix the bass, and keep it low in the mix to cover up their inability to do so!

    I trust no sound man. Do what you gotta do to get your sound out. Play with different configurations until you get what's right for you!

    BTW, I was thinking about going with 2x10 and 4x10, but the weight of the 4x10 cabinet and the small size of my car has made me hold off on that...I'll stick with my 1x15 and 2x10 for now...:D
     
  9. BLMARTIN

    BLMARTIN

    Jan 31, 2003
    DALLAS, TEXAS
    I disagree with RevGroove. I thought the same thing for a long time. Most sound-guys fill in the gaps. Meaning, that, the lows tend to be filled. It's the mids and highs that seem to be compressed and over-layered. I have done sound jobs for a lot of bands and most bass players say the same thing....."I don't hear the lows more than one yard from my amp." I usually, when I can, start the band's second set playing his or her bass while he or she stands in the control booth. They look at me when I come back after a twenty second teaser and say, "Wow, the bass sounds good from here." My point made. Just give it a chance. Remember, everyone on stage is "usually" complaining of the same anomily.
     
  10. hey guys, i've had my share of dodgy sound people in the past, but have found most people are ok. We just played an outdoor blues festival to about 600 - 700 people last saturday night and the sound was huge. frightening actually considering the sound from a lightly plucked string.
    No ones ever offered me a listen from out front in the past, but I'd relish it if it came my way.

    for those who dont hear much from onstage, how much is coming at ya from the foldback or drum fill?
    perhaps you need to ask for a little more.


    cheers

    Smack
     
  11. soulgroovn

    soulgroovn

    Oct 25, 2002
    New Haven CT
    Hey everyone - I'm just catching up with the thread again.

    We don't have a fulltime sound guy that that generally means that I'm on my own for most shows. Even when I do go through the PA I don't get too much low end because our subwoofer system is way underpowered. I also have to fight band politics when it comes to the mix. So like I said, I'm going to try the 4x10x15 combo and see what it sounds like. I'm sure it has to be better than what I'm getting now in the low end department.
     
  12. RevGroove

    RevGroove Commercial User

    Jul 21, 2002
    Burlington ON Canada
    Manager, Account Services: Long & McQuade Ltd. (Burlington); MTD Kingston Basses International Emerging Artist; Bartolini Electronics Emerging Artist
    BLMartin, I'm just giving my opinion...and that is from both being on stage and being in the audience...unless the sound guy is a musician, or really really experienced (which is in short supply and high demand in my area), then the bass gets booted out of the mix. Just my personal experience/opinion...with the exception of hip/hop or gospel type gigs...but if you're that good and you want to come do sound for me, come on up dude!;)