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Discussion in 'Basses [DB]' started by elvinstheman, Sep 14, 2005.
This is a BASS!!
Or it could be the fisheye lens the photographer used.
Yeah but you can see it's taller than him even without an endpin!
Fisheye aside, I don't think Garrison was a very tall dude. Check out the cover of Coltrane Live at the Village Vanguard Again: http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/product.aspx?ob=disc&src=art&pid=9453
I'm not familiar with the player or the record link (I do know who Coltrane was, born here in NC) but the bass looks like an American Standard. It may not be.
This pic has been around TBDB for a couple (or more) years.
It's a more than likely a 7/8 German or Czech shop bass. It could be something else...if we had more shots of the scroll and/F holes. Maybe Tyrolean. Bohemian?
The rest is just the camera angle. Ken Smith and I have finally found out that it's next to impossible to guess a basses size or who might have made it by looking at camera shots.
Just too many issues to deal with. We can tell you what it isn't, easier than we can tell you what it is. I should say IMO. Plus the fact that Jimmy was only 3' 6"
Yup.. can't tell. It could also be Italian, English, Sweedish, Australian, Vienese, Hungarian.... From Earth definitely.... That I am sure of..lol.
With Gamba shaped Basses made in so many countries around the world, unless it has specific traits like a classic Prescott your guess is as good as mine..
The Scroll, from what I can tell looks to be finer German to my eye. I need better pics but I have played next to a Bass in a few concerts that is Labelled A.Ebner 1903. He's German and the Bass looks kinda French. The Scroll is great looking and is as nice as some English heads out there. Garrisons bass has a nice looking Scroll from the Pic shown but better pics from all angles are needed to make certain.
It;s a Czech bass... I read in an article...
Ha! I told you so!!!!!
Just joking. I refuse to use that LOL BS.
Don, I can believe that you read that but just because the claim was made doesn't make it true!
English and Italian Basses are often confused as the English made great copies. English and German Basses are often confused as the Northern English made Germanic type models. Bohemian(Czech) Basses are often the 'default' for a non-standard type Germanic looking Bass as both schools of making were often similar Some of these may be English and some English may be German or Bohemian. Etc, etc, etc..
BTW, b4 anyone had seen my Mystery Bass in person a slight majority said it was Bohemian. When Biase took off the Top and after examining the outside to the naked eye, Bohemia was thrown out faster than yesterdays lunch. We were in Northern Europe and north and west of the Alps.. This also killed the few that saw a Gagliano connection.
I have seen quite a few Bohemian Basses that may actually be Vieneese or Hungarian. Remember (or look it up) that years ago there was this huge area call the Austro-Hungarian Empire that stretched from the tip of Germany almost to Romania. See here; http://www.kinshipsprints.com/images/maps/mapAustroHung.jpg
and here; http://www.rare-maps.com/details.cfm?type=maps&rid=1558727&CFID=1999063&CFTOKEN=90704412
So, where was the Bass made? Depends on Politics sometimes I guess. Maybe "Zip Codes" would be a more accurate location than the country since some countries have changed their names and/or borders.
Bobby Bradford, a trumpet player who made the scene with a lot of these guy told me that Garrison was constantly under fire from the drummer who demanded a bigger bass sound on stage. In an effort to please, Jimmy tried bigger and bigger basses (before amplifying) in an effort to be louder. It is possible that that is a 4/4 sized instrument. That and Jimmy's small stature could explain the photo.
i was just wondering if anyone knew what bass he was playing on the jazz casual recording with the coltrane quartet. that bass looked real nice and big and looked to be some panormo inspired pattern to my eye, but i could be wrong. this doesn't look to be the same bass but it is a funny camera angle.
This Bass has Zero to do with Panormo. Panormos are all Violin shape and not as wide at the bottom at all. Different Shoulders entirely etc, etc, etc. Without a collection of better pics or seeing it in person inside and out I would keep it between Germany and Bohemia. Northern England is a stretch as well as New England/American 19th century. Klotz, Seitz, Hornsteiner and a few others made large Basses like these. The Blackish dark brown Varnish with the lack of gold ground beneath kinda rules out the English. Like I said at first, not enough pics to tell for sure.
i meant the bass that garrison plays on the jazz casual video, it looks way different than this bass, violin shape, real light varnish from what i can tell, and a real big drop from the neck block down to the ribs are some things that made me think that.
I think it's the size of the people in the photo and the angle it was taken from that makes that bass look sooooo big. From what I've read and researched, Jimmy's son Matt inherited Jimmy 1920s Czech flatback. I believe David Gage has worked on this instrument, so I bet he could shed some light on it.
i emailed garrison's son a while back and asked him about the bass garrison played. he said that one was destroyed on a trip overseas, not sure if it was this one or not.
Lens "eye-level" is at the bridge height. You can tell this because the bridge appears as a plane. This means the camera lens was then shifted off axis upward to include the scroll (this is different from tilting it up because the lens axis is still level to the ground);- the camera that took this was capable of lens shifts. Both Nikon and Canon made shift lenses for 35mm cameras, (Nikon was 24mm, Canon 35mm) but shift movements are more characteristic of large format cameras. Since it is a verical picture, if the camera was not a 35mm, it had a rotating back. The vignetting at the top corners of the photo suggests the extremity of the shift movement;- it is near the limits of the edge of the lens' field of view and causes the darkened top corners (a darkroom technique called "burning in" could accentuate this effect.
The use of such a severe shift greatly increases the distortion. This type of distortion is often apparent in architechtural photos and will make a rectangular facade viewed at an and angle to the camera appear to be much taller at one end than the other. Usually this is dismissed because of the inclusion of some repetitive pattern like windows that reveals the exaggerated perspective.
This a a largish bass, but not unusally so. Even so, I have to hand it to the photographer for capturing the spirit of Jimmy's sound visually. A live CD of various European tour performances with Coltrane is definitely one of my "favorite things".
Unless it wasn't. Not meaning to be picky, but I often hear folks refer to (I've probably done it often, too) something being "possible" in reference to a past event. I think what they mean is that full knowledge of the past is uncertain. Possibility is truly something that belongs to the future. It is not known what size the bass is / was, but whatever it is / was, it is not "possible" that is was something else. One might say it is "plausible" and that would be better than "possible" in these cases. It is a subtle difference but one we should none the less be aware of when we speak of past events. It is so easy for legend and myth to enter into history.
However, it is 100% certain that this photograph contains greatly exaggerated perspective.
Thanks Silversorcerer for the photographer's perspective of this shot. As already stated, Jimmy's size and the size of the bass DO have a lot to do with the visual effect of the photo. Matt Garrison lives in my neighborhood and he's 5'6" tops. It's nice that Matt is carrying on his father's tradition of innovation, although mostly on the electric bass. He stood out at the Jaco tribute a few months back as one of the more original players.