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Chicken or the Egg?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by vanselus, Sep 16, 2003.


  1. vanselus

    vanselus

    Sep 20, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    None
    I know this has been visited before, but all I can find is propaganda and non-fact based opinion.

    Who invented the 3x10"? What about the 1x12"? The first low-B capable single 10"? How about hi-power speaks for bass in general?

    Epifani seems to be the first to market, but Berg claims that fame as well.

    Also, anybody know why BP Mag seems to hate Epifani? When they throw out a rare review, it's always simply "ok" and most of the time pretty negative. Seems wierd, maybe they just don't like that sound. It's normally Terry B so maybe it's just him.

    Just thoughts ... curiousities...

    (not that any of this matters in the face of tone)
     
  2. metron

    metron Fluffy does not agree

    Sep 12, 2003
    Lakewood Colorado
    A few months back BP did a review on the new Epifani UL 410 and it got a prefect score.
     
  3. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    BP reviews are pretty useless.
     
  4. Aram

    Aram

    Feb 2, 2003
    New York, NY
    Not sure about the 112, but I think Epifani collaborated with Lincoln Goines to come out with the 310 cab. HOWEVER, I think Jim B actually designed it for Epi. Correct me if I'm wrong...

    -Aram
     
  5. 20db pad

    20db pad

    Feb 11, 2003
    I been everywhere, man...
    None. At all.
    I remember Demeter offering a 3x10 quite some time before anybody else. Never seemed to take off, though.
     
  6. vanselus

    vanselus

    Sep 20, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    None
    From what I heard, that's complete propaganda. But then again, if he was working for Epifani at the time, then Epifani (the company) still was the inventor of the cabinet.

    Where did that start? I remember somebody that's close to Jim saying it a time ago. I wonder if it's one of those "i did it" "no i did it" things, where each person believes they're the first.

    However, the first company to market would be the copyright holder (if one was available). So that's what I'm curious about. These people that go around and say "i had that idea" or "i built that in my garage first" are ridiculous. People call us (bite footwear) and tell us we stole their idea (golf sandals) all the time - but it's total BS - they didn't have the balls to make the damn thing!
     
  7. vanselus

    vanselus

    Sep 20, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    None

    I though Demeter's 310 was WAY later than everyone else?
     
  8. 20db pad

    20db pad

    Feb 11, 2003
    I been everywhere, man...
    None. At all.
    I remember a 3x10 from Demeter in a print catalog before Y2K.

    I'm not the authority on this because I was a mess back then. They also tell me I was found in a rowboat in the Back Bay once but I don't remember that.
     
  9. Aram

    Aram

    Feb 2, 2003
    New York, NY
    You're right -- if Jim B was working for Epi at the time the 310 was concieved, then the design should 'belong' to Epifani (regardless of which engineers were working on the specifics). I think according to the BP review, it was Nick and Lincoln Goines, but in all likelihood it was a group effort at Epifani to come up with how it would work.

    Check this out:

    http://web.archive.org/web/19980703162945/http://www.epifani.com/

    It's the Epi site from 1998. You can see Lincoln standing next to a 210 with a 112 on top of it...probably only a matter of time before he said 'cram 3 drivers into one cab for me'. It seemed to make its presence on the web about mid-2000 (http://web.archive.org/web/20000520040230/http://www.epifani.com/).

    As far as the Demeter goes -- I can't find anything on their archived websites until about 2002. But as 20db said, perhaps it was in some marketing materials.

    Regardless, it's a great setup, and Jim's improvement (the 322) is a great evolutionary step in the design, IMO.

    -AC
     
  10. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    The first 3x10 I ever saw was the Epi. We're going back a while now. I was religiously reading bass magazines from all over the world back then and I'm pretty sure Epi was first.

    I have absolutely no idea about the 12 or the first for the low B capable single 10.
     
  11. Aram

    Aram

    Feb 2, 2003
    New York, NY
    Didn't the first Acme cab come out in '96? Although, I think the B-1 came out later...tough call.

    -Aram
     
  12. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    I suspect that most of the ideas were done by hifi folks at least 20+ years ago; it's a lot bigger market.

    As for the first 1x10 that went to low B, that would have probably been Len Moskowitz (http://www.core-sound.com/bottom-article.html) in 1993. He designed one but I'm not aware that he went into commercial production with it.
     
  13. Mcrelly

    Mcrelly

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    what does it matter? :rolleyes:
     
  14. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I'm pretty sure that Fender made a Bassman 3x10" cab or combo in the late 50's.

    Alex
     
  15. steve-o

    steve-o Guest

    Apr 17, 2002
    yup fender did..so it looks like fender wins

    steve
     
  16. James Hart

    James Hart

    Feb 1, 2002
    toms_river.nj.us
    Endorsing Artist: see profile
    I bought my Bag End S12 (1x12) in 1992
     
  17. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Well, although it looks like Fender wins the 3x10 "bass race" (although there are rumors that the Russians had one before them), in the modern rebirth of the 3x10 I would have to think that EA's 3x10, which was originally named the VL-310, and was later renamed the CX-310 would be one of the earlier ones offered. And it's a pretty phenomenal sounding cab, if I do say so myself.

    Tom.