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Children=Cattle?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [DB]' started by 5stringDNA, Feb 10, 2005.


  1. 5stringDNA

    5stringDNA

    Oct 10, 2002
    Englewood, CO
  2. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
  3. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    When you have the situation where a school can get sued for a kid cutting himself on the mirror that he's vandalizing while skipping class, you can only expect a school to take such counter-measures. I don't expect it to be long before insurance companies require that schools use such equipment.

    Corporations aren't the problem here -- I would lay the finger on parents and society in general.
     
  4. mchildree

    mchildree Supporting Member

    Sep 4, 2000
    AL/GA
    I don't see any difference in this, and the need to wear the id badges we wear at work...security and safety. The kneejerk Civil Libertarians apparently live in a different world than mine, where there is no need to identify who's running around in the halls of our schools and where there kids are. It's not about "inventory", it's about barriers to outside influences that interfere with the reasons kids are sent to school.

    With education budgets shrinking rapidly, it's not feasible to hire enough onsite security personnel to watch over 5,000 kids in a high school. This is a viable solution.
     
  5. 5stringDNA

    5stringDNA

    Oct 10, 2002
    Englewood, CO
    Well, given kids can be mischievious... Although I'm not all that opposed to the basic idea of some kind of check-in system, the "radio-collar" type thing irks me a little. It seems nothing ever stops with the basics, and the potential for such devices could be expanded very easily. I am rather weary of goverment-instituted programs that keep fingers on people who have not proven themselves irresponsible. I can definately see why people may like this idea, especially schools, but the corporate kick-backs and nature of the technology really bother me.
     
  6. John Sprague

    John Sprague Sam Shen's US Distributor

    Mar 10, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Sales Manager, CSC Products Inc.
    This is America folks, we don't track people with collars or whatever. If someone gives one to my kids, I will personally smash it with a hammer and return it to the school board in its proper condition.
     
  7. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    There used to be a company called seeyageorge.com that sold a t-shirt with some crosshairs on it, reading "One Nation Under Surveillance". They were based in Texas. I got some great bumperstickers from them last year.

    Oddly enough, all attempts to reach that URL have recently proved futile. Things that make ya go :meh: :meh: :meh:
     
  8. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    There's a great quote (which I'll have to dig up over the weekend) that appears in a speech by his character Philip Marlowe in THE LONG GOODBYE that touches on this (and other "individual rights" issues).
    I'll post it in Monday, unless somebody beats me to it.
     
  9. I agree that the schools have enought trouble as it is financially without having to hire supervisors, but there actually is a grave difference between work and a public school: Work is run privately, public schools are a monopolistic government corporation to all who don't have the money or don't wanna waste the money on private schools granted that they are already funding the public system. That being said, the school cannot be able to punish kids if they do not wear these bracelets. Children are minors and they have to go to school by law.

    Kind of touching on another topic, I agree that minors do not deserve the same rights as adults because of their lack of involvement in the job climate, but what about being able vote if they are old enough to get a job. I mean hell, some dude who doesn't even work gets to vote, while a person who happens to be a minors doesn't even if he is more involved. It is all politics. Soldiers who fought in the wars before the Amendment changing the voting age to 18 could'nt vote. Aside from that, I am 17 and do not have a job hence I would not be advocating for myself. I also think that keeping rights out of the hands of minors (except for cases as the above) as much as possible despite what it would do for me (even if I was a few years younger) because I know how stupid people can be, and how exaggerated the stupidity is as a teenager.

    Using that for the topic, I think that a kid being punished for boycotting this is having his rights violated because he does not have the choice to not go to school as an alternative to getting punished. That is like saying that if an employee boycotts something, that he cannot quit but has to sit in a corner for half an hour.

    On the flip side, it is just a stupid wrist band. It really doesn't violate on any quality of life except privacy at school and may distill the wrong message in kids. As I stated before, I wouldn't mind having some of my rights taken away in order to prevent stupid lawsuits as mentioned before if it means that I simply wear a wrist band. I just think its a little extreme to the point that it will hurt the psychological well-being of elementary aged kids. Was this Junior High? If so, contrary to most of my writing, I don't think it is such a bad idea.
     
  10. Nuno A.

    Nuno A. Velvet Strings Customer Service

    Jul 9, 2001
    SWITZERLAND
    Whats next guys? Doing the same to the wives? :D Isn't that a little extreme for the country who is supposed to be the biggest democracy in the world? What the kids need (and not only in the States) is solid education, that should start at home with the parents, teenage delinquency is alarmingly increasing everywhere, but i guess that the problem is way bigger to be solved making kids wear collars like cows or dogs, is that the sense of democracy and freedom that you would like to pass to your younger generations? like my 102 grandma says, parents should go to school to learn how to educate their kids, the problem starts there. please, i dont intend to ofend nobody in any way, its just that i firmly believe that this is one of those cases that the solution of a problem is in fact as ridiculous as it sounds.just my $0.02

    NUNO

    p.s.however i think those collars would be a great idea for drummers, so that we bass players could know were"they are going" while we're playing.
     
  11. mchildree

    mchildree Supporting Member

    Sep 4, 2000
    AL/GA
    Am I the only person here who actually READ that story? It's not "dog/cattle collars"...it's not "ankle bracelets"...it's ID badges. Keerist, man, there's knees jerking all over the place here.

    And I certainly hope you aren't all as gullible to media hype as you seem now. They've obviously played up the most controversial component of this thing for "newsworthiness". This stuff has been done for years elsewhere...simple id procedures designed to identify the people who are SUPPOSED TO BE THERE, so that the people who are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE can be identified and kept away. Damn, man...some of our high schools have to have bars on the windows and doors in some places, metal detectors, and cops patrolling with drug dogs as security...to keep the drug dealers and gang azzwipes out. This just makes the job easier. I'd be willing to be that many of your schools and workplaces have security cameras. Do you object to that? Hate to tell ya, but those are there to track your movements...what's the diff?

    I understand the concern over rights and liberties, etc. but in the end, I'd rather know my kid has a good chance at finishing school without getting mowed down in a gang shooting or something similar. Something that has nothing to do with what I've taught him. All the Drama Queen fainting and wailing over what it percieved as Orwellian isn't going to help anything. We don't all live in the same world, apparently.
     
  12. 5stringDNA

    5stringDNA

    Oct 10, 2002
    Englewood, CO
    I completely understand where you are coming from Mike, and as I said, the idea isn't completely invalid. However, there is a significant difference between general security devices like cameras and and hall monitors, and personal radio id tags. Being a history major headed for the education field, I have definately noticed that the government tends to both side with buisinesses in legal matters due to monetary gain regardless of whether the public's best interests are really served (Morgan, Rockefeller, Carnagie...), and they also use any given technology to the fullest the people will tolerate, and then some. Also, this may be a chicken/egg argument, but it appears that every time new security measures and rules are enforced, the general populous degrades more and the problem gets worse. The more you try and fix the symptoms and not the problem, the worse the problem tends to get. More than anything, it is very dissapointing to see that there is a need for this kind of thing, particularly given my direction in the educatoin field.
     
  13. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    Examples?

    Always.
     
  14. 5stringDNA

    5stringDNA

    Oct 10, 2002
    Englewood, CO
    As for the first quote ray, much of that is referring to my experience with the school system. Say a new element of a dress code was enforced to stop kids from wearing "offensive" clothing- it became quite normal for them to try and find ways to wear thing more "offensive" than before, btu in more covert ways, just to spite teh establishment. Being not too far from my high school days, i remember quite well the frequency with which students would do things specifically because they weren't supposed- with new rules usually came more bitterness form those under rule.
    Historically, settlers in teh Americas would protest with increasing violence each new tax and regulation, and the british government ended up more frustrated adn with less money overall when things were said and done. This is a common cycle that can be seen in French, Russian, and other country's historys- the more the rulers would push control and legislation, the more inflamed the problem became due to overall resentment and the building of distrust against a heavy-handed beuracracy.
     
  15. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    A Bush supporter in Denver! There is hope for the future :)
     
  16. I most agree with basscrazy72. If there was one thing that could be done it would be to make better parents.
     
  17. 5stringDNA

    5stringDNA

    Oct 10, 2002
    Englewood, CO
    Did you infer that from my post.. or from someone else's??
    I voted for the American Constitutional Party for the major office positions, haha! :D
     
  18. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    I flipped through some of the literature as I'm mostly unfamiliar with the ACP. It looks interesting. But I did reckon your general postition from your posts.
     
  19. What do you mean by this exactly Ray......? Be careful! :confused:
     
  20. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    I was just commenting on his seeming to be coming off as a bit of a conservative in a traditionally liberal-leaning town.

    You gonna beat me up now, Paul? :)