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choosing an 18

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by wreckall, Aug 21, 2000.


  1. wreckall

    wreckall

    Aug 21, 2000
    carvin 118 or any suggestions???

    I currently am running a hartke 410 and 115. but i still want more low end. i was thinking of the 410, and 115 on one full range channel at about 100htz and up and adding an 18.

    [Edited by wreckall on 08-22-2000 at 06:53 PM]
     
  2. White_Knight

    White_Knight

    Mar 19, 2000
    USA
    My only suggestion would be to definitely try before you buy. There are a lot of flabby sounding / slow responding 18's out there and you probably don't want to get stuck with one. I've heard great things about the SWR Big Ben and it's fast response and very tight bottom. Can't say I've ever used the Carvin version.

    Question: from what you said it sounds as if you're planning on running 3 cabs off of the same amp. Can you amp handle that? If each channel was 4 ohms (assuming that the Hartkes are 8 ohm if I remember correctly) then you should be fine and you'll probably want to get a 4 ohm 18 to use up all of the available power on that second channel.

    I'd wait to see what other people here have in the way of comments, but personally, I wouldn't buy an 18 (or any cabinent for that matter) without hearing it first. That's my opinion though. Also, I don't know how many watts your QSC is, but remember that most 18's (that I've seen anyway) aren't very efficient and guzzle up your available power so you'll want to have plenty available.

    Oh, thought of one more thing, though this really just has to do with how you want to sound. From my personal experience with a home theater subwoofer (not the same, I know, but it does apply), I'd say that if you set the crossover at 100 hz, you'll not end up sending much over to the 18 at all. Sure, you'll be getting the root of most of your notes, but I'd personally set it slightly higher to around 200 or so hz (that's what I did on my home theatre sub when listening to music and it brings out the bass part tremendously). At any rate, do whatever works for you.

    [Edited by White_Knight on 08-21-2000 at 08:30 PM]
     
  3. CamMcIntyre

    CamMcIntyre

    Jun 6, 2000
    USA
    Try them out, buy the one that sounds best, make sure you have the power to handle the 18'' so that it will actually sound better. Good Luck
     
  4. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    DC
    The SWR Big Ben has a Bag End speaker in it, so if you try the SWR and like it, you might want to try and find a Bag End cab. QSC amps can handle 2 ohm loads on one channel, so using two four ohm cabs on one channel shouldn't be a problem.
     
  5. WAKOJACO

    WAKOJACO Guest

    Jul 5, 2000
    Binghamton, NY
    I run a SWR 1X18 along with a 4X10. The rig sounds best running both cabs. FULL RANGE. I tried alot of 18's before buying, and bassically the only ones that gave a big bottom without sounding like mud were the Bag End and SWR (which is Bag End equipped as Phat Ham pointed out). Since there were no Bag End dealers around, I went with the SWR, which looked better anyway.

    As for power, most of the good 18's aren't typically rated for more than around 400W RMS. So, alot of power isn't necessary anyway. And when you do start to overpower the speaker, it sounds very bad. More of a loud popping than distortion.
     
  6. wreckall

    wreckall

    Aug 21, 2000
    sorry to sound like such an amatuer, but i am so could someone please explain a BAG END SPEAKER?
     
  7. wreckall

    wreckall

    Aug 21, 2000
    oh yea can anyone suggest a web site that deals 18" speakers i cant find any and there arent any stores around here that can get me one except for a peavey.
     
  8. White_Knight

    White_Knight

    Mar 19, 2000
    USA
    Bag End is a brand of speaker. SWR uses them quite a lot and they sound pretty good (to me anyway). I think they're website is http://www.bagend.com and the SWR website is http://www.swrsound.com

    Carvin sells raw 18 speakers as well as cabs
    http://www.carvin.com

    Eminence sells the raw drivers(I think that this URL is correct, but not sure)
    http://www.eminence.com

    I'm sure that there are quite a few more manufacturers but I can't think of any right now.
     
  9. WAKOJACO

    WAKOJACO Guest

    Jul 5, 2000
    Binghamton, NY

    Glad to see some people wanting to check out 18" speakers. Everyone is so 10" happy right now. 18's give 'da phat bottum if you want it. Players need to realize that these babies don't have to be bi-amped, but can be run full range and sound killer! Go in that little bass test room at GC and hook up the Big Ben...see if you can't shake one of those $3,500 jazz copies of it's hanger. Then add a 4x10 and stand back.

     
  10. White_Knight

    White_Knight

    Mar 19, 2000
    USA
    WAKOJACO, I agree. It's great to see people that aren't obsessed with 10's. Not that 10's are bad speakers, but (in my opinion) they are just as limited as any other speaker. I personally love 15's because I play a lot of jazz and ska that requires the deep bass and warm smooth sound that a 15 produces. 18's are pretty cool as well, but only if it's a quality (as in non flabby and quick responding) speaker. Though I suppose that goes for all speakers in general. I do like 10's for upper-midrange sounds but my favorite overall speaker is still a 15.
     
  11. CamMcIntyre

    CamMcIntyre

    Jun 6, 2000
    USA
    If i had the $$$$$ [i'm 14 & no job] to get a 18 or 15,then some sort of 10 thing [2X10,4X10] but so far i'm in the process of getting a 15". I do like the sound of 18"s lots of low end. Well theres my opinion
     
  12. Opus

    Opus

    May 25, 2000
    10's are cute for guitar and pathetic for bass unless you have a good crossover. I have a Warwick Thumb b.o. 6 with the b intonated to a so my best bet is 18's. If it sounds like the sound response on the low end is slow get a bbe sonic maximizer. I use that through my hartke 5000 and two peavy 18 p.a. speakers. Very tight,precise, percussive sound that the neighbors hate three nights a week. I always make sure to have more speaker wattage than amp wattage so as not to need my compressor.
     
  13. mikemulcahy

    mikemulcahy

    Jun 13, 2000
    The Abyss
    I love my 18's, i have 2 peavey cabs with JBL's loaded in them. They really drive the bottom well, i do however have 410 to tighten the higher frequencies up.The BBE is also a very good choice as i have one.
     
  14. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    DC
    umm. could someone tell me what the BBE sonic maximizer does. I've seen them in magazines and heard about them, but don't know what they do.
     
  15. VicDamone

    VicDamone

    Jun 25, 2000
    Wreckall, if you want deep bottom it's gonna cost you. Most of the 15" and 18" cabnets on the market aren't rated any lower in frequency responce than many of the 10" systems. These 15"/18" are simply giving you a little different tone. There is much more cone area in a 4-10" than a 1-18" as far as moving air goes.

    But if you want to hear the thud of your finger plucking or low tone you never thought your instrument had, your going to need a subwoofer, a real crossver, and an amplifier that can grip and control a masive 8 ohm cone. With the exception of the Vacume Tube Logic Woton, tubes just don't cut it here. Check out my profile gear. I was going for a low to mid volume full range sort a hi-fi sound. If you go Bag End the ELF crossover is key. This system fortifies the higher notes to a degree depending on tone settings. Its when you get down to the A string and below that this system becomes volcanic.

    I absolutly guarantee an ear to ear smile when you finally hear the low end and no buyers remorse.

    Buy the way if you're stacking the cabnets the 18" cab goes on top. Hope this helps.
     
  16. VicDamone

    VicDamone

    Jun 25, 2000
    If I can remember from a Hi-Fi review some years ago the BBE devise takes the full frequency and divides it into three bands (low, mid ,hi). It then delays the mid band, will say, 2 milliseconds and the hi band 4 milliseconds. The low band passes through undelayed. The goal being that all three bands reach the listeners ear at the same time. At the time the Matsu****a Techniqs developed a three way Hi-Fi speaker in which the driver motors (magnets) where in line with each other rather than the typical cone surffaces being fastened to a baffle on a box. The speaker had a stepped or staggered apperence. The crossover delayed the incomming signal by feeding the woofer first, back to the crossover and on to the midrange driver etc. This has become known as, "time cohearence," and is used today in many speaker reviews. The higher end Dunlavy and B&W speakers still use this method to a great deal of succses.

    The Hi-Fi community didn't like the idea of an electronic devise doing what the speaker manufactures should be taking care of. These people have a hard time with bass and trebble controls.

    The Sound Reinforcment community embraces this devise as just another tool to personalize sound. So try it you might like it.
     
  17. wreckall

    wreckall

    Aug 21, 2000
    well it has been quite a while since I posted this. And i was just thinking I should thank everyone for their help. I found the input very helpful. I finally went with an SWR big ben with a Bag End. I am quite amazed with the cab, it is extremly quick "measures up just be hind my tens". I also purchased a sonic maximizer. I bought both a BBE 482 and a Nady. One week later the bbe was back in the mail and the Nady in my rack "just my opinion, but with out thinking about price I still picked the Nady."
    Thanks Everyone!
     
  18. White_Knight

    White_Knight

    Mar 19, 2000
    USA
    No problem. That's what were all here for: to help each other. BTW, while I'm waiting for my next paycheck to roll in, you wouldn't buy me a Big Ben would you? As sort of a consulting fee, perhaps? :) Just kidding!
     
  19. reel big bassist

    reel big bassist

    Mar 27, 2000
    Maryland
    I've heard from several salespeole that
    18's have a lot of throw. What exactly
    do they mean by throw? Does it mean
    that it takes longer for the lower frequencies
    to "develop", than the higher ones, but this is true with any speaker isn't it? Also if you had an 1x18, and 4x10
    and you ran them full range, wouldn't it take
    the low end longer to develop, and so
    your audience would hear the rest of the signal
    first?

    I am just really confused about this.
    I'm just a guy lookin' for some good low end.
    Can someone clarify this for me.

    Many Thanks,
    Greg P
     
  20. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    I suspect that it has to do with how well developed the sound waves are at a great distance from the cabinet. We've all heard 8" hi-fi speakers (or even 5") make deep bass when we put our ear right up to them, but when we step away, the bass sort of dies. I think this analogy can be used with bass cabinets. The size of the 18" helps it to develop a more solid (less diverging) wavefront (which means it can move a lot of air over a wider area) at those low frequencies, which is why its "throw" may be better. I don't doubt, however, that a well-designed cabinet with multiple smaller drivers can do this too. I've also heard 2x15 cabinets purge the air out my lungs at great distances. So, in a nutshell, the super-low fundamental frequencies probably don't dissipate quite as quickly with distance. BTW: the cabinet (or stack) geometry can also have a significant effect on "throw" as well.
    Mike