Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Chord/Notation Question

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by stephanie, Jun 6, 2002.


  1. stephanie

    stephanie

    Nov 14, 2000
    Scranton, PA
    I was looking over the sheet music to "Misty" and the first chord noted is Eb and a little triangle after it so that would be Eb major. I was wondering, is it just Eb major or would it be Ebmaj7? I am used to seeing the little triangles with major 7ths and regular major chords not using them. I probably answered my question in saying that it would be Eb major but I'm just making sure. I ran into confusion because the very first note of that measure is a D and a couple measures away there is an Ab major (and little triangle) with the note G in the measure and so on, noticing 7ths of some of these chords in the piece.

    Also, G7+4: that's the same as G7add4? So that would be G B C D F?

    Thanks,
    Stephanie
     
  2. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    A lot of times, the triangle is used to indicate maj7, not just maj. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that's what's meant here.

    As for G7+4, that looks weird to me. I don't know where in the tune that's coming from, but my guess is that it should be either G7sus4 (G C D F) or--perhaps more likely--G7#11 (G B D F A C#).
     
  3. Gard

    Gard Commercial User

    Mar 31, 2000
    Greensboro, NC, USA
    General Manager, Roscoe Guitars
    Stephanie, I think Richard's got it right...and I would lean towards the G7#11 answer for the G7+4. I'd need to see the whole piece to be certain, what is the next chord after the G7+4? That may help resolve the question (seeing how the chord is resolving :D).
     
  4. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    I'd also go with G7(#11).
     
  5. stephanie

    stephanie

    Nov 14, 2000
    Scranton, PA
    The next chord is a C7. This is under the first ending of the piece, the progression goes G7+4, C7, F7, Bb7 then of course resolves back to the Eb chord in the beginning. The key of the piece is Eb.

    Thanks for the help, :)
    Stephanie
     
  6. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    Those aren't the correct changes for the 1st ending. They should be ii-V's. Gm7, C7, Fm7, Bb7, which then resolves to the Ebmaj7.
     
  7. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    No, I think those changes are OK. I've seen and played it with IIs (G7 and F7). Not that it would be terrible with ii, but I've actually heard II more often. Try it--it's a different flavor, but you might like it.

    In the Chuck Sher New Real Book, he has II, and I've found that book to be pretty good generally. At least, in this case it reflects what I've heard.

    Naturally, you'd probably wanna alter the chords in that turnaround. I dunno that G7#11 would be the first thing I'd think of there, though ...
     
  8. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    The Chuck Sher "Real Book" has the first ending as:

    | G7 C7 | F9 Bb13 |

    The other "Real Book" has the first ending as:

    | G-7 C7 | F-7 Bb7 |

    Band in the box version:

    | G7+ C9 | F-9 Bb13 |

    It's a III VI II V turn around.

    BTW: The last four bars of the first eight is the same progression as the 1st four bars of Rhythm Changes.

    I VI ii V iii VI ii V
     
  9. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    Yeah, I know. Between the two, I'd trust Sher more. His stuff is pretty painstakingly done, and it's well known that there are a number of mistakes and, let's say, lazy or careless choices in the common or garden Real Book. Besides, the Sher version agrees better with what I've heard players do in practice.
     
  10. stephanie

    stephanie

    Nov 14, 2000
    Scranton, PA
    Ohhhhh...I think I'm diving into some unfamiliar territory. :confused:

    My teacher just handed me this song right before I left my lesson the other day to have me try and write my own bass line to it. (The line I have written so far doesn't sound too shabby, happy to say...but I was just confused on some of the chords.) I just gave you the progression that was stated on my sheet of music. Would it be right either way if the chord was a G7+4 or Gm7? I can see where the Gm7 comes in, though. I have to look over what I wrote and see if my line is affected by this.

    Thanks again,
    Stephanie
     
  11. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    If I were you, I'd go with the music your teacher gave you. If he's seeing G7 but you're playing Gm7, he may assume it's a mistake. That said, there are lines you could play that avoid the issue entirely and would work for either chord.
     
  12. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    G-7 or G7 won't really make much of a diff in the bass line especially if you're dealing with a two feel approach to this song, it's a ballad and the mystery G chord would be handled by just playing the root for two beats, the root of the next chord for two beats or for one beat with an approach note to the next chord.
     
  13. stephanie

    stephanie

    Nov 14, 2000
    Scranton, PA
    Yeah. For that measure of G7+4 C7, I just wrote a simple line of quarter notes (for now anyway...it sounds ok against the melody). I think I wrote it G F G Bb. I used the root and 7th of the chord so I guess it didn't make a difference. :)
     
  14. PhatBasstard

    PhatBasstard Spector Dissector Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2002
    Las Vegas, NV.
    Most of the theory books that I've delt with, if they've addressed chord short hand symbols at all, had the triangle = M or Maj or maj with no 7 unless indicated (i.e. The triangle was just another short hand symbol for Major). So adding it to the basic chord notation (simple Major, no 7) would be redundant. This being said, most arrangers don't neccessarilly follow the same (or literally correct) set of rules for this as I have, on several occasions, seen the triangle to represent Major7 with no 7 being indicated. I've also seen it added (redundantly) to simply indicate Major.

    One man's Bm7 is another man's D6. Sorta'.