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Chords with 2 and 9 and 11 etc

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by bassist4ever, May 8, 2002.


  1. are these chords just like major chords (root, maj3, min3) with a maj2 added to the mix? i cant find anything about that...
     
  2. bizzaro

    bizzaro

    Aug 21, 2000
    Vermont
    I am pretty sure if you use the 2nd tone of the major scale you are in, that makes it a 9th chord. I will be corrected in short order:D And yes they are chords, Why wouldn't they be?
     
  3. *ToNeS*

    *ToNeS*

    Jan 12, 2001
    Sydney AU
    it's a long stretch from the 1 to the 9th, but it makes sense to me. take the octave of the 2nd note in a scale, and there's your 9th, so why the hell not? :D
     
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    No, is the answer to your question. So if you have a chord specified as C9, then it will be a dominant 7th chord with an added 9, which means it includes the flat 7 as well as 1,3&5.

    This is an important distinction in that you can't just use a major scale with such chords as they include note(s) that are not in a normal major scale.

    That is of course, unless the chord is specifically stated as major - like CMaj9 or sometimes you will see a little triangle which indicates major 7th

    .
     
  5. what is a dominant 7th chord...... hell what is a dominant chord?
     
  6. Lipis Roman

    Lipis Roman

    Mar 5, 2002
    USA
    A Dominant 7th chord is a Major chord with a flat 7th.


    C Major chord = C E G B
    C Dominant 7th = C E G Bb
     
  7. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    A dominant 7th chord is one that includes the root, major 3rd, fifth and flat 7th.

    So C7 would be : C, E, G and Bb.

    C9 would be this chord plus the 9th - D - on top.


    Cmaj7 would be C,E,G and B.

    All very basic stuff, but vital if you are creating basslines that use more than root and fifth!!
     
  8. can someone list all the possible chords for me???

    im extremely chord stupid....

    many thanks...
     
  9. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    NO - there are hundreds, possibly thousands if we start building in fourths and things like that and slash chords mean almost infinite possibilites- get a book!
     
  10. *ToNeS*

    *ToNeS*

    Jan 12, 2001
    Sydney AU
    ALL of them? :eek:

    you gotta be yanking our collective chains with utmost enthusiasm, mate. that's a tall order.
     
  11. Gard

    Gard Commercial User

    Mar 31, 2000
    Greensboro, NC, USA
    General Manager, Roscoe Guitars
    Hey there B4E, I'll try to make this clearer...

    I'm trusting that you have your triads well in hand? If so, this isn't too hard to get. :)

    First the 7th chords: (interval key: R = root, M = major, m = minor, P = perfect, dim = diminished, aug = augmented)

    Major 7th: R M3rd P5th M7th, or the 1,3,5,& 7 notes of a major scale. Example: C E G B

    7th: R M3 P5 m7, or the 1,3,5, & b7 of a major scale. Example: C E G Bb (this chord is referred to as "dominant", because it is typically built on the dominant tone of a key, or the 5th scale degree, i.e. C in the key of F. It is called dominant because it's sound has a tendency to lead back to tonic or the 1st scale degree. To hear what I'm talking about, play the notes descending in this order: C Bb G E, and you will hear a very strong "pull" sonically to play an F after the E.)

    minor 7th: R m3 P5 m7, or the 1, b3, 5, & b7 notes of a major scale. Example: C Eb G Bb

    minor 7th b5: R m3 dim5 m7, or the 1, b3, b5, & b7 notes of a major scale. Example: C Eb Gb Bb

    diminished 7th: R m3 dim5 dim7 (double flatted), or the 1, b3, b5, & bb7 notes of a major scale. Example: C Eb Gb Bbb (enharmonic to the note A)

    7 #5: R M3 aug5 m7 or the 1,3,#5, &b7 notes of a major scale. Example: C E G# B (this particular chord is typically found in minor keys functioning as a dominant, leading back to the minor one chord)

    minor/major 7: R m3 P5 M7, or the 1, b3, 5, & 7 notes of a major scale. Example: C Eb G B

    That pretty much covers all the 7th chords, any extension will be built over that will add to the basic 7th chord, typically. The only "oddity" is that you will technically use all the notes up to the extension name. That means if you name a chord "13", you will include the 7th, 9th, 11th, as well as the 13th.

    C 13 is just a C 7 with the 9th, 11th, & 13th added (Technically...you can omit certain notes and still have a 13th chord. The really important notes to give the sound of that chord are the 3rd, 7th, and 13th [E B A], you can actually just play those three notes and give the "illusion" of C 13.)

    C #11 is just that: C 7 with the 9th and the #11 added - C E G Bb D F#

    Now, the only time this "rule" gets broken are the "add" or "sus" chords. An add chord is just a triad with a note added:

    C add 9 = C E G D (no 7th)

    A sus chord is a triad with the 3rd replaced with a 2nd or 4th:

    C sus 4 = C F G
    C sus 2 = C D G

    Hope this straightens things out! :D
     
  12. thanks abunch gard.
    that is what i was looking for...
    *tones* i want yanking anyones chain. like i said before... i am pretty much chord illiterate and have no money for books.......


    tahnks ya'll
    Ya'll come back ya hear?
     
  13. bizzaro

    bizzaro

    Aug 21, 2000
    Vermont
    So do you have to play the 9th or can you finish the chord scale with the second and still have it be considered a 9th?
     
  14. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    Here's what you may be looking for:

    I - tonic
    ii - (not sure about this one -- might be super-tonic)
    iii - sub-mediant
    IV - sub-dominant
    V - dominant
    vi - mediant
    vii dim - sub-tonic

    Within any key, these are the names defined for chords based on these scale degrees.

    To re-state what Gard said:

    In the major scale, the V7 has a major 3rd and a lowered (flatted) 7th. So the term "dominant 7th" has come to be used to describe this tonality.

    Be aware that these names were defined some 300 years ago, and do not fully describe 20th-century popular music idioms like bles, jazz, and rock. So in the key of D, for example, if you play G7 (with an F natural), in 18th-century classical music they would not have a definition (or even a use!) for this chord in the key of D. We now think it sounds kinda cool, and even though it's built on the sub-dominant scale degree, you will hear people describe the chord as a G dominant 7th.

    'Zat more than you wanted to know?
     
  15. Hmm... what does the last on-top means? so is there every going to be a C2? No? If a chord have C E G Bb and D, it must be C9 and not C2?

    I don't understand why it have to have a +8 thing, because as far as I see it, it doesn't have to be relatively 9 steps from the root right? It can be played as a 2nd?
     
  16. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member


    Because, in this system - you are building chords in thirds - 3,5,7,9,11,13 - from the root. It's really just a convention, although if you are voicing chords, say on piano, it can sound different...I think?
     
  17. Brooks

    Brooks

    Apr 4, 2000
    Middle East
    I am very far from an expert on this subject, but this is how I see it. If I am playing the chord on a guitar, I will play the 9th, never the 2nd..it just sounds better as root and 2nd are too close.

    If I am playing bass over the chord (one note at a time), I will play it either way...whichever suits better. So, if I see a 9th chord, I may play 2nd or 9th, depending on what else is going on.
     
  18. That is if you do not play the octave right? If you play the octave, the 9th will be close to the octave as well!
     
  19. Hmm, so the function of 9 in there is being a 3rd from the 7th, and not being a 2nd to the root?

    So does that somehow gives some limitations to what we can do with the 9th? Let say, can we have a line which consist just of the root and the 9th? Or like the 9th must be preceded by a 5 or 7?
     
  20. Brooks

    Brooks

    Apr 4, 2000
    Middle East
    Right, though two high notes close together sound better than two low notes. In the end, all that matters is if it sounds good and right for that particular situation.