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Christophobia: In Praise of Christianity.

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by PeaveyTNT, Feb 17, 2003.


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  1. PeaveyTNT

    PeaveyTNT Banned

    Jul 21, 2002
    USA
    Taken from "The Savage Nation" By Michael Savage.

    "The Founding fathers guarunteed us "freedom of religion" not "freedom from religion." Did you get that? The boll weevils on the left claim the Constitution was erected a "wall of seperation between church and state." They say Americans cannot pray in public; Americans must not display religious symbols on certain holidays in public; nor can Americans sing Christmas carols in public.

    But they are wrong.

    The alleged "wall of seperation" doesn't exist. It cannot be found in any of the constitutional documents. Period. This purposeful deception, fostered by the extremists in the ACLU, is perhaps the paramount achievement oof the radical left in this God-fearing nation.

    America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Prayer and attending religious services have both been a part of our cultural experience as far back as the arrival of the Mayflower. Like it or not, religious expression is part of the American identity.

    But you weren't taught that in school. Why? The leftist-controlled education cznarinas do not want you to know our own history.

    Go back the the drafting of the U.s. Constitution. It was the summer of 1787, and the reprasenatives who broke free from the tyranny of the British Empire were gathered in Philadelphia to hammer out this great document. After weeks of almost no progress, many were ready to walk away from the convention.

    Benjamin Franklin, who was eighty-one years old, stood and challenged the leaders with these words:


    I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: Tjat God governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall the the ground without his notice [which, I should point out, is a direct reference to the words of Jesus in Matthew 10] is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, sire, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this...I therefore bef leave to move that hence forth prayers imploring the assistance of heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this assembly every morning.


    What's this? The Founding Fathers were challenged to pray every day at the start of government business? How did they respond? They started to pray at their meetings, a tradition the House and the Senate still embrace today.

    If you still have any doubts about America's Judeo-Christian heritage, listen to our third president, Thomas Jefferson. He said, "God, who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of th epeople that these liberties are of the gift of God?...Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever."

    But the radical liberal socialists, who are intolerant of competing views, are counting on Americans to remain a dumb sheeple. (This is Peavey talking in these parentheses, "Sheeple" are what he calls passive people who just take what ever comes no matter if they like it or not.) They hope the God-fearing people of faith will forget why the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock in 1620: to build a new life, in a new land, "wherein every man through countless ages should have liberty."'

    Back to Peavey.

    I honestly agree with everything that I just typed from this book I am reading.

    Now boys and girls, I posted this to spark debate. Don't get mad at me for what is said, that is not my writing. I just knew it would spark conversation.

    Lets not get mean as to not get JT and Odie ticked :)
     
  2. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    Personally, religion doesn't do much for me, I don't pray, and I don't attend church. I guess its a nice idea, but for me personally, bass playing is the only faith I need.
     
  3. PeaveyTNT

    PeaveyTNT Banned

    Jul 21, 2002
    USA
    Well, I believe God exists... I cannot say that I am a great person/follower. But I believe that people should be able to pray whenever and wherever without being disturbed... If Muslim kids in America are allowed to go and pray during Ramadan, shouldn't students and teachers of other faiths be able to do the same during religious parts of the year?

    :bassist:
     
  4. Its all good and all, but what is the point of writing it? What is he defending? I haven't been attacked by neo-facist-liberal-communist-socialist-nazi-left winger extremeist for my beliefs, and I doubt too many others have.
    Sure there is the "no prayers in school" thing, but thats not as bad as it sounds. That just means that the teachers can't try to make their students pray. I can pray all I want at school.
     
  5. For the good of everyone on TalkBass, I am NOT going to ever look at this thread again....
     
  6. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    I think its good that there is no prayor in schools. Since Prayer is such a subjective and ethereal thing(being that it affects people differently and involves belief in a supernatural entitie that controls the universe)

    Science and math and history have their place in schools, cause they are more definite(granted a lot of history is skewed) but with religion and prayer, I don't think it should be necessarily encouraged or brought upon kids, who might otherwise not have any use for it.

    but yeah, as spank said you can pray all you want in school, just not in the middle of class ;)
     
  7. PeaveyTNT

    PeaveyTNT Banned

    Jul 21, 2002
    USA
    It isn't all that bad, but the opposition exists. It is just an interesting topic to me.

    by the way, communist nazi? that would be funny to see....
     
  8. I can pray in the middle of class if I want. The only thing I would get in trouble for is talking while the teacher is lecturing, or something like that.

    I can't see where there is oposition. Seriously, has anyone here decided to take a prayer in public, like at a restuarant or something, and have someone else come up and say "Excuse me sir, you are offending me."

    I think the best way to keep this topic under control is to not get into anything else but the topic at hand, so lets try to leave stuff out like discussions about our own interpretaions of faith and God and the such. Lets keep it to the "christophobic" topic.
     
  9. jasonbraatz

    jasonbraatz

    Oct 18, 2000
    Oakland, CA

    right. it's not like a teacher will stop you if you're praying five minutes before class starts.
     
  10. PeaveyTNT

    PeaveyTNT Banned

    Jul 21, 2002
    USA
    I had prayer at a resturaunt tonight, in fact.

    So I know there isn't a problem in that scenario.

    But take High School football.

    Public school teams aren't allowed to pray as a team before a game.

    Why?

    What if no one would be offended? Still no?
     
  11. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    good call spank, I think I'm going to leave this one alone.
     
  12. jasonbraatz

    jasonbraatz

    Oct 18, 2000
    Oakland, CA
    because the likelihood of noone EVER being offended/feeling excluded is very, very slim. hell i get mad every time i hear the pledge of allegiance and hear that 'under god' b.s.


    IMO - anything that recieves public funding should NOT be allowed to have any kind of denomination whatsoever. even having a 'generic' denomination is too much.


    and...i'm spent.
     
  13. PeaveyTNT

    PeaveyTNT Banned

    Jul 21, 2002
    USA
    God isn't a religion... God is whatever you want him to be... something or nothing... skittles or midgets... whatever.

    Religions are man made forms of praising what god is to then.
     
  14. I prayed with my cross country and track teams before games, and it has never been an issue. In fact I had never heard of that until now, and you'd think I'd have heard of it in California where people get offended if you look at them a certain way!

    So lets say a football team wants to have a prayer before a game. Who is going to stop them? Really now, is the coach gonna cancel the game because someone is praying?

    I think the law or policiy or whatever about the whole "no prayers for public teams" isn't exactly what you think. I think it is supposed to mean, "No prayers prompted by the coach or an official." Which is the same thing as "No prayers in school prompted by a teacher." If the football team decides that they want to pray, they can all they want, so long as it isn't the coach saying "Ok team, lets take a prayer."
     
  15. PeaveyTNT

    PeaveyTNT Banned

    Jul 21, 2002
    USA
    I have talked to some local athletes who I see at local christian music places and stuff, and I ask them if they wish they could pray as a team, they always answer something to the tune of "we aren't allowed to"...

    It seems to me that schools make it seem like prayer is against the rules in all respects.
     
  16. Marlat

    Marlat

    Sep 17, 2002
    London UK
    Isn't that the point? I would have thought that the ban on prayer in schools is really just a ban on forcing people to observe a particular prayer (ie led by the teacher, coach whatever).

    I don't think there would be any issue with certain members of a Team praying together if thats their thing, but forcing a non-believer (such as myself) to participate is offensive becuase it is not-accepting their beliefs.

    I don't know what the situation is like in the US, but in Australia, parents who want to have their children brought up with a particular religious influence send them to a school of that denomination.

    Personally I dont see what the big deal is? Why would you want to force anyone to pray? If god is such a personal thing, let everyone observe it in their own personal way!
     
  17. PeaveyTNT

    PeaveyTNT Banned

    Jul 21, 2002
    USA
    Agreed.

    I don't really have an opinion on this, I was just hoping to spark discussion, which i seem to have done...

    Good night.
     
  18. Arent threads like this not allowed??

    hmm

    Merls
     
  19. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    On the other hand, sometimes you have to take the "founding fathers"'s actions with a grain or two of salt. We are talking about slave-owning men who believed that only land-owning, wealthy men should have a say in their "democracy." Right?
     
  20. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    There are voices calling the USA a "theocracy", criticising that there's not enough separation between state and religion/church - what are your thoughts on that?
     



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