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Citizen rights: To abuse citizens?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by RyKnoz, Aug 30, 2002.

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  1. RyKnoz


    Dec 22, 2001
    I have been awakening to the facts that the newer generation(s) are beginning to use their own rights as US citizens to abuse others' rights'. Such as freedom of speech. Is it just me or is society getting worse and worse? What ever happened to getting along with other people and being polite?
  2. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    It's a dying thing, my friend.

    I'm not worried, though. Karma's a b****
  3. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    Can you give an example?
  4. Gabu


    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    You can always lead by example. Try to be polite yourself!! Maybe, others will follow.
  5. Brendan

    Brendan Supporting Member

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    It is not humanly possible for me to put it better or add to that thought in any way.

    or, as Josh would say:

  6. The problem is that most of our rights contradict eachother.
  7. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    Please illustrate, for those of us who don't follow you.
  8. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    i think the issue is that people don't respect and revere the rights that they have. they take them for granted. they expect more. they don't understand that rights = responsibilities. that while their rights are inviolate, to experience the everyday respect of those rights by others that we come to expect in much of the "free" world is a gift and a privilege.

    every human being on the planet has rights, but relatively few live in an environment where those rights are respected and upheld. unfortunately, a large percentage of those privileged few don't recognize their blessings and treat them with more reverence.
  9. Sorry, since freedom of speech was mentioned, one example could be that you have freedom of speech but you can't tell someone you are going to kill them...that sort of deal.
  10. yep, couldnt agree with you more there. many people are simply ignorant as to what their rights really are. for example, i know quite a few people that dont know what their Miranda Rights are (right to an attorney, right to remain silent...etc). Heck, some people think 'you have to right to remain silent' means that the police are telling them to shut up, so they ignorantly spout things off.

    Some people really need to have the constitution and the bill or rights stapled to their foreheads. its ridiculous sometimes.
  11. Aaron


    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    It pisses me off that i can't threaten to take away the lives of people. :rolleyes:

    You have rights as long as they don't take away the rights of others, which i think that example does.
  12. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    That's where I thought you were going. Are rights aren't contradictory in that respect. You've simply misunderstood the extent of your rights. You don't have "freedom to say anything you want". Your freedom of speech ends where others rights begin. Just like you can't yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre.

    So we might add that another problem is that so many people don't really know what their rights are, let alone respect the rights of others.
  13. HeavyDuty

    HeavyDuty Supporting Curmudgeon Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Jun 26, 2000
    Suburban Chicago, IL
    Case in point: Elimidate.
  14. A good example would be the current trend in US colleges and universities to stifle and eliminate conservative points of view from being heard on campuses. It happens everywhere geographically. Conservative speakers are protested, harassed, and eventually driven from the open forums that should be open to all.
  15. Yeah, really. I'm pretty conservative, a capitalist I guess, so whenever I talk with the others in the pool hall or cafeteria or some other general campus type place, I'm usually arguing with quite a few people. I've been called a racist, a fascist, and a right wing nut job, although there's probably some truth to the last part.

    It seems to be a bit more conservative in my business classes though.
  16. Another problem is a small but very vocal minority that uses it's "rights" to purposely interfere with another's. Say, the Oregon Citizens Alliance. A very conservative group who want to impose legislation that is quite discriminating against gays and lesbians. They are interfereing with the rights of another person, and using their rights to do it.

    In the words of my Brit boss, "Bloody Shame, that.:("

    Rock on
  17. sandmangeck


    Jul 2, 2007
    My how time flies!
  18. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    For the sake of clarification that's one of the most misquoted lines from a SCOTUS case ever. The court was clear that the problem was not "yelling fire in a crowded theater". The problem was "yelling fire in a crowded theater" if the statement met two standards.

    1) It had to be false, if there was indeed a fire you were free to yell fire. And the person yelling it had to know they were lying. If for instance you saw smoke and yelled fire, even if there wasn't a fire you would still be within your rights.

    2) It had to be a direct threat of physical harm. In other words you had to know that there was a strong likelihood that physical bodily harm would result.

    In other words Freedom of Speech in the US as defined by SCOTUS is a very broad and sacrosanct freedom. To be in violation of it, the speech has to be knowingly false, and knowingly dangerous. In the US with the exceptions of private citizens and libel (and interestingly libel doesn't apply to most political or religious speech), or a conspiracy to commit physical violence, there are almost no limits to public speech.
  19. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    How are they "imposing" legislation? Seriously, doesn't most legislation in OR come from majority votes in the State congress or referendum? While you may disagree with their POV, does that mean they don't have the right to proclaim it and vote on their POV?

    For the record, I'm a Conservative and a Christian, and I'm for gay marriage. But unless the Court orders it, or it comes by Presidential order, I don't see how anything can be "imposed"

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