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Cliff Burton Fan Club
- Thread starter PrimusNut
- Start date
Can't hear Cliff on the first few CD's? Wow! I always could and I had a crappy stereo to boot. Dunno what people mean with that hey...lucky me I guess. Cheers for the number too I'll update my sig one day.
I started out as a metallica fan, and by there a Cliff Burton fan, but it soon developed over to preferences for Jasons live style, and those good lines on Load and Reload. i have always felt that Jason was a much pro style bassist opposed to Cliff.
Cliff was low in the mix, unless you count those occasional farting noises. also, IMO, he have a completely horrible right hand technique, it looks so unprofesional, but hey, play as you want.
He had the occasional very cool lines (like the intro to for whom the bell tolls, Orion..) but other than that its mostly very standard for the genre, IMO, Frank Bello from Anthrax did more.
Either way, i get a little irritated when i read that he was the first to work with distortion. John Entwistle and Billy Sheehan was far before him, i have the Entwistle instructional video wich was recorded in 81 or so, and that is a very fuzzy tone.
its not meant to be ragging on him at all, as a former fan, i still have alot of respect for him, i just think that hes often blown out of proportions as a bassist.
Cliff was low in the mix, unless you count those occasional farting noises. also, IMO, he have a completely horrible right hand technique, it looks so unprofesional, but hey, play as you want.
He had the occasional very cool lines (like the intro to for whom the bell tolls, Orion..) but other than that its mostly very standard for the genre, IMO, Frank Bello from Anthrax did more.
Either way, i get a little irritated when i read that he was the first to work with distortion. John Entwistle and Billy Sheehan was far before him, i have the Entwistle instructional video wich was recorded in 81 or so, and that is a very fuzzy tone.
its not meant to be ragging on him at all, as a former fan, i still have alot of respect for him, i just think that hes often blown out of proportions as a bassist.
I'm a Cliff fan!
I had a Rickenbacker for a while (turns out I don't like Rickenbackers much though...), and while I had it I recorded the entire Orion interlude, using only bass. Playing all the guitar and bass parts, solos included.
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Enjoy!
I don't want to get into some big argument, but do you really think it's OK to illegally download music for free while the artists don't get paid and record companies go bankrupt because of it? I still don't understand what Lars did that was so terribly wrong
Lokire, your clips always amaze me man. You've got great feel and technique, at least to my ears.
Thanks! I remember recording that interlude was a lot of fun. I've been thinking of doing a youtube video of the full song, with me playing ALL the parts and solos on multiple bass tracks 
I've been on a bit of a Metallica binge lately
I've been on a bit of a Metallica binge lately
Jason Newsted was the main reason I started playing bass
Me as well, he is in my opinion, a much better performer live, and also, this can be confirmed, he knows A LOT about music and can truly play like a beast if you were to listen to projects outside of Metallica (and even in Metallica, check out some of his solo's besides Misery, and his fills on a lot of the material, not only that, YOU CAN HEAR HIM!) Cliff just played flashy and died young, and all the kiddies now just jump on the band wagon mostly. Don't get me wrong, he was a good player, but not a god. Jason Newsted is way closer if anything. Not to mention, he is also a very good, down to earth person. Not to mention, I personally think he was way more metal than Cliff. \m/
Edit: Sorry for the hijack, but if anyone noticed, I was being sarcastic about the Jason Newsted club. I just think having a club for a certain bassist is a bit... unnecessary?
Also, it seems most people just hate Jason because he plays with a pick. Thats a good reason to hate someone, isn't it?
Yeah,Jason sux,Cliff rulz!!!
BTW people hate Jason because he's got lots of Sadowskys.
I love both Jason and Cliff like my elder brothers btw.
I'm a Cliff fan!
I had a Rickenbacker for a while (turns out I don't like Rickenbackers much though...
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Enjoy!
[Spinal Tap] "Big bottoms, big bottoms... Talk about mudflaps, my girl's got 'em!"
[/Spinal Tap]ahahaha. seriously though, Lokire your playing never ever ceases to amaze me, you did ol' Cliff proud right there. Lovely tone from that rick
BTW people hate Jason because he's got lots of Sadowskys.
Has has about 21 or 22, last I counted
Who said Cliff was the first to use distortion? He once stated in an interview that Lemmy Kilmister influenced his distortion use.
Another thing to remember is that Cliff was just in the first few years of his fame, still growing as a bassist.
I like Cliff more than Jason because he influenced how metalheads think of bass. Even my guitar loving/bass hating friends enjoy Cliffs solos and basslines. Something about the feel and sound of Cliff's lines just... I really feel it.
Maybe a club for a certain bassist is a bit much, but I don't think so, and judging by the quick replies, some others dont think so either.
And, I am in now way hyping Cliff up to be more than he is, I am just making a thread for dedicated fans like me to show our respect.
Another thing to remember is that Cliff was just in the first few years of his fame, still growing as a bassist.
I like Cliff more than Jason because he influenced how metalheads think of bass. Even my guitar loving/bass hating friends enjoy Cliffs solos and basslines. Something about the feel and sound of Cliff's lines just... I really feel it.
Maybe a club for a certain bassist is a bit much, but I don't think so, and judging by the quick replies, some others dont think so either.
And, I am in now way hyping Cliff up to be more than he is, I am just making a thread for dedicated fans like me to show our respect.
Sure, Newsted's a great bass player, but Cliff gave Metallica a kick in the Ass(Ride The Lightning, Kill Em All, Master of Puppets all great Albums) it even influenced them after his death in To Live is To Die.
Cliff Played Flashy? Headbanging, Looking down at his bass all the time not caring who was watching(with his eyes closed, so he wasn't seeing where his hands were going). He exercised his musical expertise as writing a lot of riffs in Metallica's early material. Orion, Master of Puppets, Battery, The Four Horsemen, the list goes on. He did what he had to do to separate himself from other bassists as far as musicianship went, he did what he had to do to get his part of the sound to be great.
Another part to the "He played Flashy", I don't think the basslines in MoP, Battery, The Four Horsemen, and Ride the Lightning were that flashy, they kind of blended while still holding their own mysterious complexity. He only solo'd in songs he wrote all by himself such as Orion.
When Newsted got in there, his first album with metallica was AJFA(I have that CD), There is no song on that album where the bass sticks out, he just doubles the roots of the guitar parts. He did that for God knows how long.
When Metallica sold out at the beginning of the Black Album era and later around the release of Load, they started cutting their hair short and playing bluesy music. Newsted went along with it because he thought he was cool, he was with the band, but if Cliff was there, it probably wouldn't have happened, and if it did, He would have gave Metallica a kick in the ass and they would have more than likely changed back, and Metallica would still be respected by 1,000s of their now-former fans.
If it wasn't for Cliff, Newsted wouldn't have even picked up the bass.
And as for the pick part, no, I don't hate him for using a pick, I don't hate him at all, I just look down on him for trying to fill someone's shoes that was about 1,000,000 sizes too big and failing miserably, and then playing a part in killing a Band that WAS awesome.
In case you haven't noticed, I disagree strongly with your arguement here. Cliff was way closer to a god, His legacy still lives on this long after his death. Cliff was way MORE METAL than Jason. He had the attitude way more than Jason did, Cliff would turn over in his grave after he saw Jason did to Metallica.
Thats right, real Metalheads jump in a band for 10-12 years while playing a part in the band's sellout thus killing the awesomeness of the band, then use the prestige he got from Metallica to form his own little band, then leave the band to go play with his little garage band.
R.I.P. Cliff, even though he probably can't, seeing how Jason has scarred Metallica besides helping it heal through Cliff's Death.
Cliff ****in rules.
what JASON did to metallica? Jason didnt do crap to Metallica, Metallica did what ever they "did" to themself, Jason had close to NO input.
Jason is 10 times the musician Cliff Burton was IMHO, his stuff is alot more "groovy" and musical when he was allowed to do his own thing.
And ill agree, the closest to flashy Burton was, was Anesthesia.. for the love of god, Steve Harris was a much more flashy player at that time.
how did jason scar Metallica? Just, How?
even though i turned out to be mainly a cliff fan for a while, Jason was the one that made me start playing bass, becouse of his awsome live attitude.
Jason is 10 times the musician Cliff Burton was IMHO, his stuff is alot more "groovy" and musical when he was allowed to do his own thing.
And ill agree, the closest to flashy Burton was, was Anesthesia.. for the love of god, Steve Harris was a much more flashy player at that time.
how did jason scar Metallica? Just, How?
even though i turned out to be mainly a cliff fan for a while, Jason was the one that made me start playing bass, becouse of his awsome live attitude.
I really hate when people compare burton the victor Wooten, ***?
Wooten is a technique god, Burton was one of the main original (despite their demo bassist) members of Mother F'in Metallica, you don't compare them. Even other rock bassist, at oen point in time Metallica was the biggest band in the world, how do you compare other influence.
Newsted IMHO is a better player, he is obsessed with bass, had a bad ass attitude, but Burton was the 'Original', Newsed entered as a marked man for the beginning, the original albums are amazing, yet I do enjoy load and reload, some real good rock (non-metal) songs on there.
I am a fan of both, METALLICA RULES until they hired a shrink, that was lame
Wooten is a technique god, Burton was one of the main original (despite their demo bassist) members of Mother F'in Metallica, you don't compare them. Even other rock bassist, at oen point in time Metallica was the biggest band in the world, how do you compare other influence.
Newsted IMHO is a better player, he is obsessed with bass, had a bad ass attitude, but Burton was the 'Original', Newsed entered as a marked man for the beginning, the original albums are amazing, yet I do enjoy load and reload, some real good rock (non-metal) songs on there.
I am a fan of both, METALLICA RULES until they hired a shrink, that was lame
"Jason didnt do crap to Metallica, Metallica did what ever they "did" to themself, Jason had close to NO input."
-Close to no input...exactly, he was too much of a pussy to say anything against selling out, he just wanted to be cool and with the band. Cliff would have stood up and said,"Hey, lets keep it metal," and they would have kept rolling on as the METAL metallica instead of as the ROCK Metallica. When you say "Themselves" you are referring to Metallica, and Jason was a member at the time when they sold out and became a bunch of wusses, so he was 1/4th of the problem.
"Jason is 10 times the musician Cliff Burton was IMHO, his stuff is alot more "groovy" and musical when he was allowed to do his own thing."
-I don't really feel any groove when I listen to Jason do his own thing, like on the cunning stunts DVD. That bass solo had no groove to it. Cliff was a classically trained musician as well, took piano/music theory at a very early age, and at about 14-15 he picked up the bass and started kicking ass on it.
"how did jason scar Metallica? Just, How?"
-Being in the band for 10-12 years, using his prestige as a Metallica bassist to pull together a little side project, then when James started getting angry for it, he left when James popped the question "Them or Us?", therefore leaving Metallica, sending the band into about a 3 year dry spot where anger was venting constantly, everyone getting pissed off at eachother, James went into alchohol rehab, then finally picking up Robert Trujillo to continue making **** albums compared to how they used to be when Cliff was still alive.
If thats not scarring, then I don't know what is.
Either way, Jason still sucks compared to Cliff, Cliff was metal, a hardcore metal bassist, and you described Jason as..."groovy? and musical?" More musical than Cliff? Right, Jason couldn't even write a song good enough that Metallica would play it or add it on to their records. Orion(Pure Cliff behind the writing of that song, and I feel the soul of that song every time I listen to it.) beats the hell out of any song Newsted has already (or ever will be) written.
Caveat: I am a huge Cliff fan, as stated on the first page of this thread.
But I hate these "Jason vs. Cliff" arguments.
Firstly, there is no way of knowing how Metallica would have progressed had Cliff still been alive. But as to whether they'd have been more or less "metal", who can say? I have no doubt they'd have turned out somewhat differently (personally, I suspect they'd have gone a lot more down that progressive road that they were on during and just after MOP). But I have no way of knowing - nobody does. For all we know, Cliff could have quit Metallica after MOP or AJFA and gone into a totally different style of music, the same way we have no idea of what Jimi or Jaco would be doing now had they still been alive.
Jason is a very good rock bassist who put up with his ideas being rejected because he was so stoked to be playing bass in his favourite band. He'd have had to have been committed given the amount of crap he took from Metallica's fanbase and from the band themselves. Sure, Jason wasn't nearly as flamboyant and technical as Cliff, and I suspect his knowledge of harmony is some way behind Cliff's, but he brought good stage presence to the band and performed the material well and with a decent amount of technical finesse. Cliff was always missed onstage, but Jason brought a very different kind of persona to the table, and was always an intense performer, and his vocal contributions to the live show couldn't be ignored.
I think he got a bum deal, as very few of his song ideas were used (although it wasn't just him - look how few writing credits Hammett has), because, after Cliff's death, Hetfield and Ulrich closed ranks and (by their own admission - watch Some Kind Of Monster) they could never get over Jason being "the new kid" and wouldn't take his ideas seriously. From personal experience, I know not being able to scratch a creative itch is frustrating, and I'm not surprised he decided to leave. Hopefully the band will take Trujillo's creative ideas seriously - we might have some good bass playing to marvel over on the next Metallica record if they do.
But I hate these "Jason vs. Cliff" arguments.
Firstly, there is no way of knowing how Metallica would have progressed had Cliff still been alive. But as to whether they'd have been more or less "metal", who can say? I have no doubt they'd have turned out somewhat differently (personally, I suspect they'd have gone a lot more down that progressive road that they were on during and just after MOP). But I have no way of knowing - nobody does. For all we know, Cliff could have quit Metallica after MOP or AJFA and gone into a totally different style of music, the same way we have no idea of what Jimi or Jaco would be doing now had they still been alive.
Jason is a very good rock bassist who put up with his ideas being rejected because he was so stoked to be playing bass in his favourite band. He'd have had to have been committed given the amount of crap he took from Metallica's fanbase and from the band themselves. Sure, Jason wasn't nearly as flamboyant and technical as Cliff, and I suspect his knowledge of harmony is some way behind Cliff's, but he brought good stage presence to the band and performed the material well and with a decent amount of technical finesse. Cliff was always missed onstage, but Jason brought a very different kind of persona to the table, and was always an intense performer, and his vocal contributions to the live show couldn't be ignored.
I think he got a bum deal, as very few of his song ideas were used (although it wasn't just him - look how few writing credits Hammett has), because, after Cliff's death, Hetfield and Ulrich closed ranks and (by their own admission - watch Some Kind Of Monster) they could never get over Jason being "the new kid" and wouldn't take his ideas seriously. From personal experience, I know not being able to scratch a creative itch is frustrating, and I'm not surprised he decided to leave. Hopefully the band will take Trujillo's creative ideas seriously - we might have some good bass playing to marvel over on the next Metallica record if they do.
Im Just saying,
Where the wild things are and My friend of misery are 2 of my favourite Metallica songs.
And please, dont blame Jason for quitting Metallica, i have heard the James chased him around at the stage and threw beer and stuff at him. also the comment "I might push Jason in to the crowd just to see how they react" on the S&M DVD made me understand why he left.
I firmly believe that Jason can stand for himself with his playing, and not rely on his metallica career.. the man loves music, he should be allowed to do what he want, with out anyone(like Hetfield) Holding him back..
You can serriously see the love Jason have for the music live, it looks and sounds like he puts so much passion in to it.
Where the wild things are and My friend of misery are 2 of my favourite Metallica songs.
And please, dont blame Jason for quitting Metallica, i have heard the James chased him around at the stage and threw beer and stuff at him. also the comment "I might push Jason in to the crowd just to see how they react" on the S&M DVD made me understand why he left.
I firmly believe that Jason can stand for himself with his playing, and not rely on his metallica career.. the man loves music, he should be allowed to do what he want, with out anyone(like Hetfield) Holding him back..
You can serriously see the love Jason have for the music live, it looks and sounds like he puts so much passion in to it.
