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Communism + Buddhism = ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Manual_Combat, Jun 10, 2007.


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  1. Manual_Combat

    Manual_Combat

    Jan 20, 2005
    has anyone ever thought that if communism had disregarded their views on religion and strictly enforced buddhism, that it might actually work?

    Real buddhism is about living a completely well moralled life. Basically take the 10 commandments and cutout any religion.
    If the ideas were strictly enforced and people were required to meditate on a daily basis, i wouldn't even be able to imagine how peaceful and possibly productive a country would be produced.

    the reason i bring this up is because i did a 10 day meditation course where i didn't speak, read, or write () and realized how peaceful people can be through meditation and also realized that although it may too idealistic to believe what i'm talking about, buddhism and buddhists today disprove that such beliefs aren't impossible. (in my opinion at least)

    any thoughts?
     
  2. xifr

    xifr

    Sep 26, 2006
    Melbourne
    Communism is not compatible with today's globalised world, and no religion will help this.

    I would go into it a bit more, as well as about Marx, but I'm not sure if this is considered a political discussion.
     
  3. Happynoj

    Happynoj

    Dec 5, 2006
    UK
    I like turtles.
    1) I don't think it would really help - people will still be selfish and scared of equality (which is basically what Communism offers)

    2) How can you force anyone to take up or change a religion? I am a hardcore atheist, and my best friend is the son of a Baptist minister, and is a committed Christian. I have spent the best part of the last 14 years trying to convince him that religion is a load of phony rubbish, and where has it got me? Nowhere. Oh well.
     
  4. Deacon_Blues

    Deacon_Blues

    Feb 11, 2007
    Finland
    I don't believe communism in any form would work.

    People have their religions and you cannot change that too easily. I believe a religion-free world, where everyone have the same same ethical base principles, would be better than the current one with at least every second war being related to religion...
     
  5. ducknturtle

    ducknturtle

    Dec 28, 2006
    New Jersey
    Communism tries to operate in a way contrary to human nature. The results are always bad.
     
  6. +1
     
  7. Diggler

    Diggler

    Mar 3, 2005
    Western PA
    Well, if you don't speak, read or write, then maybe you'd be OK under communism. :D
     
  8. Manual_Combat

    Manual_Combat

    Jan 20, 2005
    what makes you say that? China may not be real communism- but it, at the moment, has an incredibly fast paced economy because of the control the "communist" government has. Cuba and north korea's lack of friendliness with america has made them pretty much hated by a large portion of the rest of the world (despite the cold war and north korea's current weird missle ape **** state)...

    the reason i began this thread was because i feel that mao's cultural revolution in china (1949 i think) had such a firm grip on the people that they were willing to do whatever mao said would make the country grow for the better. People will do some crazy things in desperate situations. hitler in germany had a similar effect on the people and was able to completely have the general people's opinion on things under control (generally speaking).

    So in that situation (it would never had happened but what if?) it seems to make sense that if Buddhism, a completely not selfish way of life, would have had many positive effect on the nation and its power hungry leaders.
     
  9. Aaron Saunders

    Aaron Saunders

    Apr 27, 2002
    Ontario
    It's not that communism isn't compatible with today's world, it's that communism isn't compatible with human beings. Our psyches don't ALLOW for it on a grand enough scale to run an entire nation on it, which is also why a Buddhist nation with laws enforced based on the religion -- especially turning everyone in China into hardcore Buddhists (good luck converting over a billion people) -- would not work as well.

    Human nature does not allow for grand scale belief in something that is, by today's standards, considered rather esoteric.

    Plus you'd never get a centralized government of a Buddhist nature, as that's against Buddhist teachings. Not only that, but every citizen would have to be a devout Buddhist (or at the very least, abiding to a very stringent set of laws) because law enforcement would be somewhat of a "conflict of interests" for those very serious about the religion. Even so, a Buddhist society is an extremely strict life.

    Not to mention that a (fundamental) Buddhist nation would highly reject today's high rate of globalization -- what with rejecting worldly desires -- and would find itself quite on its own.

    I could go on, but I don't see a point.
     
  10. Manual_Combat

    Manual_Combat

    Jan 20, 2005
    i see what you're saying.
    i never realized that a centralized government with a buddhist nature was against buddhist teachings- but that's really besides the point.

    As of now, the year 2007, what you're saying is 100% correct.

    but! if communism was applied along with the cultural revolution in china in 1949, do you think it would have made the nation a less of a power hungry nation?

    please remember that i'm not arguing that it would work if it were applied today-

    also there are many forms of buddhism. the form i'm talking about is not about living a life a monk would live- but revolve your life around the morals a monk would live- if that makes sense?
    in other words- continuing on living one's life while incorporating buddhist beliefs and values.
     
  11. Can you have a strictly enforced Buddhist state? Isn't that contrary to Buddhist beliefs? Plus, communism was based on dialectical materialism, i.e., we are born into circumstances, and then use our ingenuity to survive in those circumstances and consequently change them. (I always thought this was a pretty brilliant way of thinking about the world.) And doesn't Buddhism teach that reality is an illusion and embracing materialism brings suffering?

    Hypothetically it seems implausible, but realistically, who knows? It seems like it would be a pretty wacky society though.
     
  12. Manual_Combat

    Manual_Combat

    Jan 20, 2005
    i guess the core of my question is kind of pointless and aimless.

    maybe it's just i'm curious if people, in large numbers, are able to conform to good and well moraled beliefs & lifestyles as opposed to sex, money, and power hungry lifestyles that most of us all live.
     
  13. Let's start off with the basics.

    1. The Nature of Dukkha: This is the noble truth of "dukkha": Birth is dukkha, aging is dukkha, sickness is dukkha, death is dukkha; union with what is displeasing is dukkha; separation from what is pleasing is dukkha; not to get what one wants is dukkha; to get what one does not want is dukkha; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are dukkha.
    2. The Origin of Dukkha (Samudaya): This is the noble truth of the origin of dukkha: It is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination.
    3. The Cessation of Dukkha (Nirodha): This is the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha: It is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, and non-reliance on it.
    4. The Way Leading to the Cessation of Dukkha (Magga): This is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of dukkha: It is this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. [7][9]

    (Stealing from Wiki, yet again.)

    Couldn't really work at all, as the first step of Communism can result in the desire to overthrow the higher power, then ultimately become that power yourself. Yes yes, equality all around, but that desire directly conflicts with the elimination of suffering/Dukkha.
     
  14. Different strokes for different folks. It would be awesome if everyone could agree, but the fact of the matter is time and time again someone will eventually go right as the rest of the world goes left.
     
  15. Aaron Saunders

    Aaron Saunders

    Apr 27, 2002
    Ontario
    To be specific, it's not written in the old scriptures or anything, but the ideas behind it and the values thereof are.

    That said, I dig what you're saying -- but the issue with morality is that it's a very, very "fluid" concept, everyone has their different ideas about what is right and what is wrong. While it would be nice if everyone in the world agreed with your own idea of what is moral (even if the same ideas are already currently shared amongst many people in the world) it is through these best of intentions, combined with opportunity, ability, and a hint of mental instability that can result in oppression and totalitarianism, the very opposite of what you would wish.
     
  16. I have to disagree with this. The reason China's economy is expanding so quickly is because it actually has adopted capitalism, just in a bit of an odd fashion. There are several Special Economic Zones (SEZs) around China, mostly around Hong Kong and the Pearl River Delta. That's where most of China's growth is being fueled from. Though the government and the majority of the country are still communist, these geographical regions are mini-capitalist principalities within a larger communist political framework. The whole situation is very complicated, and I probably could not explain it in any way that would make sense. But China's economy is not fast paced because of the government's control (it's actually the opposite) and in the past week or so, that government has actually tried to slow it a bit to prevent a stock market bubble.

    I'm a little confused by this, you're not suggesting the cultural revolution was a good thing, are you? Because in my mind it was pretty terrible.

    I'm confused as to how this would work out in a practical sense under these conditions. Wouldn't it be the power hungry leaders who would be imposing Buddhism on the populace, or are you talking about if Buddhism had already been established in the country? The communist government in China had a philosophy that was very similar to Buddhism in that it promoted "moral" living and frowned on frivolity, promiscuity, excess and "selfishness". The rpoblem was that the denial of self was countered with the aggrandizment of the power-hungry leaders.
     
  17. Manual_Combat

    Manual_Combat

    Jan 20, 2005
    I wouldn't go all out and say the government plays no role in the economy. i have no facts that i can find sources to so i won't say them-

    as for the revolution- i'm not saying that what was actually going on was a good thing. But in the eyes of the people it was good.

    "I'm confused as to how this would work out in a practical sense under these conditions. Wouldn't it be the power hungry leaders who would be imposing Buddhism on the populace, or are you talking about if Buddhism had already been established in the country? The communist government in China had a philosophy that was very similar to Buddhism in that it promoted "moral" living and frowned on frivolity, promiscuity, excess and "selfishness". The rpoblem was that the denial of self was countered with the aggrandizment of the power-hungry leaders."

    i'm talking about if the leaders had imposed buddhism on the populace. You could consider that the leaders would and could use buddhism as another form of control- but if the leaders themselves were true buddhists and, for at least the time of their revolution, didn't have in mind a goal of taking over, would it have produced a less corrupt (that is the word i should've been saying all along) government?

    the ideas i'm trying to put out are all hypothetical.
     
  18. Aaron Saunders

    Aaron Saunders

    Apr 27, 2002
    Ontario
    In modern day politics, I'd say the problem is that the government and economy in more than one country are basically the same thing!
     
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    MAJOR METAL The Beagle Father Supporting Member

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