Compact Cabinet question...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jedwards, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. jedwards


    Feb 1, 2005
    I am looking to put together a compact rig to mate with an SWR SM-500 amp. I really like the SWR when running direct out into the board, but find I have to re-Eq when using my Mesa 4 x10 RR. The Mesa is a great Cab, but I am getting too old to lug the thing around (~120lbs.)

    Also, the SWR does not provide as much power as I've used in the past, so I am thinking I would like to go smaller.

    Reading this forum a bit lately their has been a lot of talk about how "loud" schroeders are, and compact. But not many address the tone of the cabs. In a perfect world I would like to feed the PA via the direct out and use the same EQ settings for the cab.

    Also interested in the Accugroove Tri 112 cabinet- has anyone used this with an SWR head? Can it reproduce the SWR tone? can it handle the low B at decent volume? (club stage)

    If it is any consideration, I use a sukop 6 string with Bartolini pickups and play Jazz/Rock/Blues/Pop. Mostly I change the tone via the bass controls, and EQ the amp for the room.
  2. I think EA has a very "studio like" sound, I use very little EQ, and it sounds more like a recording than a cabiinet. So I "think" that would be suitable. I'd have to really A/B cab vs headphones or somthing to verify that. I have the vl-210's but they're not made anymore. The other cabs sound like they have similar sound. Tom Bowlus would be the guy to ask, he has all the EA cabs ever made.

  3. I've personally never had much luck using an SWR head with a 'non SWR cab'.... both tone and volume wise. I very much liked the SWR head (a 900 in my case) combined with a Goliath III... very modern and sizzly (the SWR sound) if you like that sort of thing. Did some A/Bing with Eden 410XLT and 210XLT and an EA CXL210 cab and the 900 sounded very sterile (IMO) through those two

    To my ear, the SWR proline stuff is voiced very wide... with very, very deep lows and very sizzly highs.... that doesn't seem to be the best combination with EA and Accugroove cabs.
  4. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    But it's far from a perfect world. A good PA system has reasonably flat response from 40Hz to 12kHz. You can get that from a small speaker, but not one that will go loud enough for stage use. To get that kid of response at useable levels you need a box that's at least the size of a 4x10. Not that a 4x10 will go flat to 40Hz, but at the minimum that's how large the cab would have to be.
  5. Ah... never tried an EA vl-210 cab... But you're certainly right in general.

  6. iriegnome

    iriegnome Bassstar style Supporting Member

    Nov 23, 2001
    Kenosha, WI 53140
    I use an SWR Bass 750. SWR Fell off the planet when Fender bought them. I got rid of all of my SWR Cabinets and I discovered Schroeder Cabinets. Light and versitile, priced middle of the road, but made to last and such a beautiful sound. Tons of choices. Go to the web site and give Jorg a call. You will not be disappointed!
    check out the TB thread - Schroeder TB Thread
  7. jedwards


    Feb 1, 2005
    Ok - Do you lose much punch with the 1210 or 1212? And does the cab color the sound much?

  8. jedwards


    Feb 1, 2005
    I think the key point in that statement is "useable level". I can't play with acoustic drummers due to hearing issues, so playing with electronic drums is a bit different in terms of stage volume. I used to power the 4x10 with 2x450 watts stereo cranked, and just don't need to produce those sound levels anymore. I try to keep the stage volume below 95db, kind of like wedding band volume. I have to think a smaller cabinet can be used in this situation, or I have to doubt why they are sold at all, unless bassists use them for practice setups only.
  9. Heck, for 95 db, wedding band levels, you might be able to get away with a single 10" or 12" EA cab. They have some with the new Neo magnets that are extremely lightweight.

    Haven't tried them, but the Schroeders seem to have great reputations also.

    Low Down Sound in Mich is building some small light cabs and getting good reviews, especially with the neo drivers. They had a neo 2x15 that was pretty darn light even... that's still bulky, bigger than you need, but listed just for the wow factor of how light a traditionally heavy cab can be now.

    My 210 EA cab produces a monstrous low B, no low end problems at all. A pair of VL-210's stacked produces more tighter low end than my old stack of a bag end 1x18 underneath a Hartke 4.5 xl (4x10+tweet) cab. Including the low B.

  10. Jonesy4fnk

    Jonesy4fnk Supporting Member

    +1 for the Schroeder cabs....compact but punchy, clear, and powerful......and the sound dispearsion is amazing, you can actually move away from the front of your rig and still get the punch and clarity. My drummer loves my new 1212, he can finally hear every note.

    I shed my 125lb SVT410 for this little beast.
  11. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    Yep, the EA CxL-112 works really well for me in those situations, and most of my gigs are like that. The CxL would give you a very good shot at using the same EQ that goes into the FOH, in my experience. But using the exact same EQ is a crapshoot at best. Even if your cab and the PA cabs were identical, their physical placement would usually necessitate different EQ, in my experience.

    Ok - Do you lose much punch with the 1210 or 1212?

    Think Mike Tyson in his prime. :cool:

    And does the cab color the sound much?

    It's all relative. The punch comes from the coloration, IMO. I can EQ the low mid bump out of the 1210 pretty easily, but I'd rarely want to for the electric basses I use.
  12. Funkengrooven

    Funkengrooven Turn it down? You gotta be nuts!!


    I use a couple of different SWR amps (pre-Fender models) and drive Alnico JBL 15's and Ceramic WeberVST & JBL's with terrific results. I can't imagine why using a non SWR cabinet would be a problem. So why did you dump the SWR cabinets if they were doing the job?? :confused:
  13. I actually dumped the 900 first, then the Goliath 3 a few years later. I used the Goliath III for a number of years with other heads with great success. The only reason i dumped the GIII was weight.... When the epiUl line came out, i found I could get plenty of modern articulate tone in a cab that actually projected better (IMO) and that was literally half the weight.... so that was that :)

    As far as matching the SWR head with other cabs, it's all personal taste. I found that the SWR heads and cabs were wonderfully tuned to work together. When i personally tried my 900 through other cabs, I just found other heads that sounded much better to me.
  14. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    At that low of a volume a small EA or Acme may well do the trick. They're the only ones I know of that actually have a hi-fi response curve. None of the others I've seen mentioned in the thread are even close to flat 40 Hz-12kHz and won't approach the sound of the PA.
  15. iriegnome

    iriegnome Bassstar style Supporting Member

    Nov 23, 2001
    Kenosha, WI 53140
    I feel that the cabinets improve the tonal quality. They can put out everything that my SWR Goliath and Big Ben did and more.
  16. MacGroove

    MacGroove Brother of the Groove with a 'Pocket Full of Funk'

    Oct 5, 2005
    I'd suggest trying Epifani UL (ultra light) cabs. I've been using his cabs for 12 years. Each of his cabs can handle a low B extremely well. I have a 112, 210, 115 (all NYC's) and recently his 410 UL. I've used the 112 in many types of venues. I play a Fodera Emperor 5 and I use a Walter Woods Ultrahigh Power amplifier.
  17. Moo

    Moo Banned

    Dec 14, 2002
    Oakland, CA
    My friend plays hard rock with an SWR 500, he gave up his Aguilar 1x15 & Eden 2x10 for a single Schroeder 1212. The overall volume dropped a bit but the mids went way up and the one cab cuts much better than the other two.

    I don't think your stage tone would match your DI but to me it would be much better. I find the Schroeders to be rather colored and great for live shows.
  18. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    Not even the Accu Groove Tri-112?

    And if not, would you know where it was deficient?


  19. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    I couldn't say from experience. The driver compliment seems OK, though.
  20. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I think that EA would be on my short list, if I were you, but so would Bergantino and Hevos. I haven't tried the Accugroove Tri 112, but it might do the job, too. My only concern with ACME would be the efficiency issue, but if you're really not playing that loud it might be okay (though I find that my ACME's sound even better with more headroom).

    For specific models, I would think that the NL-210 or Wizzy would pair up the best with your SWR. Maybe a CxL-210 or CxL-110. I find the CxL-112 to be the most "scooped" sounding EA cab (I'm talking compared to other EA cabs), and using it with the SWR might compound this characteristic. The Bergantino HT112 and EX112 are excellent options, and his new S line (HT210S, HT112S, EX112S) is fairly compact, too. I'm pretty much impressed with Jim's cabs across the board. As for Hevos, the only cab that I have heard is the Midget (1x10), but this cab is pretty darn clear and neutral sounding, and it gets very loud (and goes very deep) for its size. I don't know how they do it, but it just blows me away.

    For another option, Low Down Sound in Detroit builds some excellent custom cabs, and they can probably design something to fit your particular needs.

    Hope this helps, Tom.