Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Companys who you do not want to see bought out by larger companies

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by g4string, Sep 18, 2003.


  1. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    I was reading the old thread that popped up again about the SWR user who had a crappy experience FMIC after they bought SWR. It made me think.

    I used a to be a loyal SWR user. I sold out prior to anyone knowing of the buyout and have recently pledged my alegience in Aguilar. I love their cabs. Although I play a Dememter pre. I have heard many good things about their pre's and power's. This company is one the move. They have great products as well as some big name endorsers.

    It seems that Aguilar is doing a great job of marketing and proving that they are the next big thing in bass amplication. I hope they never sell out either.

    I feel that Aguilar could be as big as SWR if they made a hybrid pre/power head similiar to the SWR 350, 750, and 900. This would appeal to alot of buyers. IMO, I think Aguilar made better cabs than SWR anyway.

    Eden is gone. SWR is gone. Ampeg is still left, for now. Hopefully the guys at Aguilar dont abandon their customers and become money whording pricks like Eden and SWR.
     
  2. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    How, exactly, does having a business that doesn't make enough money to stay afloat make you a money-HOARDING prick? If it makes you any kind of prick--which it doesn't--it makes you a money-LOSING prick, no?

    How is selling a business that isn't working out abandoning your customers? If a business is losing money, or not making enough to be healthy, is it supposed to stay going indefinitely just so you won't feel abandoned? Eden and SWR don't owe it to you to stay in business if they just can't.
     
  3. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    R. Lindsey,

    First off, do you know the exact reason Eden and SWR sold out? The last I knew, Eden and SWR had no serious financial difficulties. And if they did, I would seriouslt hope that all efforts were made to keep the company small and consaslidate their buissines.

    Actually, SWR and Eden do owe its costumers something! When a company has a following who specificly buy their products based on brand loyality, that is when they owe it to you not to change.

    Face it, SWR is going to change. F**k, they already haved. I wouold have rather seen SWR go under than be bought out by Fender.

    As far as money whording pricks? Do you think Steve Rabe just gave Fender the company? How much is being paid to stay with Fender as a consultant? Did he have his interest or his loyal customers interest in mind when he sold SWR to Fender.

    If Rohen Jacobs was let go by Fender due to consalidations, ask him what he thinks about SWR abondoning their customers and becoming money whording pricks!
     
  4. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    Glockenklang, Tech Soundsystems, Merlin, Markbass, Sieben Audio Design, Reussenzehn...
     
  5. FretNoMore

    FretNoMore * Cooking with GAS *

    Jan 25, 2002
    The frozen north
    I don't really care who owns a company, it's the support and products that matter. Selling your small company isn't necessarily a bad thing - it beats bankruptcy at least. Product development and customer support is expensive once you've reached a certain volume. I also think it's good that those who built the company - often sacrificing a *lot* on the way - get to cash in.
     
  6. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    1. Getting paid for something is not being a money-HOARDING prick (note spelling).

    2. Nobody EVER owes it to you not to change. Your need for them to stay the same is *your* problem, not theirs. Eden and SWR don't owe you, or me, or anyone else anything in this regard.

    3. No, I don't know how much Steve Rabe may have gotten paid. Do you? If you don't, how can you bellyache about it?

    4. No, I don't know exactly why they sold out. From your language (e.g., "I would seriously hope"), I'd guess that you don't know either. It seems presumptuous of you to cast aspersions on their motives if you don't even know what they are. But ask yourself: if the business was going as great as you seem to think it was, what would have been the motivation to sell?

    5. I'm sure the workers at SWR would appreciate your wish that the company go under before being bought by Fender.
     
  7. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    FretNoMore,

    I understand where you are coming from. It just bothers me that maney great company's started with a dream and a mission. Then, it's all about the moola'. Don't get me wrong, making money is a necessity to stay in buissines. But, what about your loyal customer's.

    The point being is tha SWR prided its self on great cust. service. And I am sure that their cust. service had served to be a pivotal point in the decision making process on whether or not to buy SWR. Then, they turn around and sell to FMIC. I think it is safe to say that FMIC has interest their customers and has the worst track record for customer service in the music biz.

    That is why I felt that SWR abandoned its customers.
     
  8. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    6. You mentioned Ampeg as if it were an independent. Ampeg is *not* a small independent company and hasn't been for years. They were bought by St. Louis Music (who also own Crate) years ago. Does that make their current amps worse now?
     
  9. thumbtrap

    thumbtrap

    Jun 26, 2003
    From other threads here, it would appear that SWR got sucked under (along with a bunch of others) because they had extended credit to Mars Music, and when they went under, a lot of small outfits couldn't absorb the loss. SWR had no choice but to sell.
     
  10. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    Listen g4, believe it or not, I'm not trying to be a hardass. I think you're right at least to be wary of what this merger *might* lead to. But I also think it it makes no sense for you to take something personally that's *not personal*, and to make assumptions about the motives of people you don't even know in a situation you don't understand completely.
     
  11. From what I read, both SWR and Eden were in some financial trouble. Steve Rabe hasn't actively been involved in SWR for some time now. I don't necessarily think that either company is run by 'money-hoarding pricks.' None of us knows the true dynamics of the situations so none of us has the right to call the people involved anything.
     
  12. I think eden was in serious $$$ trouble. Look at how their development was going. They were not coming out with any new gear. Then they were bought out and boom! tons of new amps and cabs. But you never know...
     
  13. Ask any tech who's worked on both... ;)
     
  14. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    For one, I'd hate to see QSC sold to a larger company. ;)

    IMHO, good customer service is important to a company's viability and profitability. But a company that has great customer service but loses money probably won't be able to afford that great customer for long. And if a company loses money, that usually means that someone--usually the owner--has to funnel money into it to keep it going; either that or cut way back on personnel, expenses, etc. Even if you're a customer, the owner isn't obligated to pay just for your satisfaction that the company has remained independent. If the money hemorrhaging is bad enough, the owner might have to sell to someone with deeper pockets who can withstand the losses or has the necessary resources to turn it around.

    And sometimes an owner sells just to cut back on his or her workload and cash in on the built-up sweat equity.
     
  15. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    Hmmm...I must have mis-read the title.

    I thought this off-topic thread was started for people to name companies they do not want to see bought up by big ones.

    I was going to say dbx, and ART.

    -Mike
     
  16. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    dbx is a division of Harman International.
     
  17. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    The same Harman that just bought up Crown???

    well.....just ART then.

    Thanks for the info Bob.
     
  18. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    Oh, I agree. But I meant something different. What I meant was, if you (generic you) think, say, a 2003 SVT III is a good amp when you're under the impression that it's made by a smallish independent company, do you suddenly start thinking the *same amp* is worse when you discover it's actually made by a conglomerate?
     
  19. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    There's nothing in this thread that didn't come out of something the original poster said. If you want to talk about the original purpose of the thread, it seems in fact to have been started as much to bash SWR and Eden as for any other reason.

    But be that as it may, in principle, I wouldn't like to see *any* small independent company bought up my a big conglomerate. I'd like to see more business diversity overall, not less. But some small businesses--a lot, actually--just don't work out. If such a business has to be sold, then at least I'd hope it would go to a company that can maintain or even improve the brand. A good example is what Kaman has done for Hamer. As someone succinctly put it in another thread, Kaman kept their money in Hamer and their noses out, and Hamer is actually making better guitars now than before IMO. Whether Fender can do anything similar with SWR, or US Music Group can do something similar with Eden, remains to be seen.
     
  20. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Melissa, TX
    R. Lindsy

    I did not start this thread with the intention to bash Eden or SWR. I loved my SWR cabs. I switched to Aguilar for portability. I stated that I am going to continue to be a loyal customer of Aguilar products. And, that I hope they do not sell out.

    Although, in my last two sentences I did state my disgust mith the Eden and SWR buy-outs. It is my opinion, I feel that I am entitled to that. There is no reason to get excited about what some dude (me) said on the internet about SWR or Eden.

    Additionally, I am not taking this subject personally, I feel that you were.

    No hard feelings.