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completely open to ideas...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by nonconformist, Mar 15, 2008.

  1. Looking to sell my current Peavey T Max (just isn't powerful enough) and move up to something in the 500-600 watt range... and in the $500-700 dollar range used.

    I am also looking for simplicity. I would love a few nice and fat knobs for BASS MIDDLE TREBLE input gain and output. I don't need anything crazy to get my sound. At best, a 7 band eq to shape for the room. I just want loads of power and punch, and simplicity.

    Just bought an awesome Precision Bass, so I want something to go with my Aggie 2 12 and get plenty of punch for a modern rock setting that also does cover songs and 'mild funk'.

    So come on TalkBass, recommend some stuff for me!

  2. Rob Mancini

    Rob Mancini Guest

    Feb 26, 2008
    Markbass, Genz Benz, GK, Ampeg, etc. There are probably a dozen amps on the market that fit the bill for you. Get thee to a music store!
  3. namraj


    Feb 7, 2008
    The T Max is in the 500 - 600W range? at least myn is?

    But if you must go ashdown, simple design, good full sound, loud and pretty
  4. murphy


    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    MARKBASS LMII fits all your criteria
  5. Hawaii Islander

    Hawaii Islander Supporting Member

    Aug 11, 2007
    Rio Rico, AZ
  6. The current numbers for this rig are 250/350/500 @ 8/4/2ohms

    So i'm getting 350 into a 600 rated aggie cab.... a tad underpowered, imo.

    Would going with a power/pre setup be beneficial?

  7. just because youre not farting out your cab with the *ahem* rated power ability does not mean youre underpowering it. even if you "upgraded" to 700 watts, you would see an insignificant volume increase. doubling wattage adds 3dB, doubling cabs could add 5 or 6dB. if you really need the volume, try adding some cabs, a 212 does not always cut it IMO as you are likely noticing. funny my lowly 300 watts at 4 ohms KILLS with two highly efficient kappalite 3015s. good luck ;)
  8. +1 to adding cabs.
  9. +1 for Markbass, LMII!

    I'm SO impressed with their stuff so far... loud, punchy and transparent.

  10. volume is not at all a problem.

    my only concern is clipping the amp. My 2 12 is just fine at getting through, cutting in the mix, and being loud. My only concern is the way the amp will clip at higher volumes, due to it being forced into a cab with much higher wattage rating.

  11. Eminor3rd

    Eminor3rd BLAAAAARRGGHH!!

    Feb 10, 2008
    DEFINITELY check out the Eden WT550. Looks like it's in your power range and at the upper end of your used price range. It's got a super versatile but easy to use EQ that you probably won't need to mess with much.
  12. Rob Mancini

    Rob Mancini Guest

    Feb 26, 2008
    Whether or not your amp clips has nothing to do with the speaker you're feeding it into. It has to do with how much you've turned up the gain. If you overpower a speaker, your speaker will blow long before you clip the amp. If you underpower a speaker, your amp will clip before the speaker but you more than likely won't damage the speaker. Clipping doesn't damage speakers. Pushing them past what they're able to take damages them.
  13. clipping on a solid state amp does damage speakers, as the square wave that comes out is not good for speakers at all.

    imagine you have a spring. if you move it in and out smoothly it is easy to do. this simulates a sin wave (not square). if you have a square wave (ie clipped), the speaker essentially tries to hold the cone out for a fraction of a second, then instantly be the other side and hold it there for another fraction of a second. this is much harder to do, and heats up the voice coil and will blow the speaker much more easily.

    tubes arent as harsh when they clip, as its a smoother transition, and distortion we want in a tube amp isnt nearly as clipped as this (saturated tubes arent actually saturated)

    i was debating about this with someone at a music shop, who was saying that you should get a speaker rated at less than the output of the amp, so you can hear the cone breaking up and then turn the amp back down a bit. the guy said that the reason was that when the amp clips, it will put out a square wave, which is equivalent to 3 times the output that the amp can put out cleanly, and this happens suddenly. i didnt realise they were talking about a pa system, so i was telling them they were wrong until i realised what they were talking about. i dont think this is nessisary for a guitar/bass amp, but its how they do it in pa's.
  14. Rob Mancini

    Rob Mancini Guest

    Feb 26, 2008
    At least one a week, this myth is shot down by the big audio physics guys on here. I merely parrot what they say, so I can't argue you on a scientific level, but when pros like Jerrold Tiers from Ampeg and Bill Fitzmaurice and Agedhorse from Genz Benz say it, I tend to believe them.
  15. dreadheadbass


    Dec 17, 2007
    ashdown MAG 600
    its a big retro looking 550W monster its got big old fashion twisty dials for the eq and its very simple and also cheap as chips
  16. will33


    May 22, 2006
    Carvin B1500
  17. georgestrings

    georgestrings Banned

    Nov 5, 2005

    Yup - I also use a T-Max, and play in a loud, modern rock band... I *usually* run it into a 410 and a 210(both 4 ohms for a 2 ohm load), and rarely have to turn it up much past 1 on the Post, and leave it on 4 on the Pre...

    But, on a few occasions, I've gigged with only the 4 ohm 410, or a 4 ohm 1810(one 18 + two 10s), and been just fine...

    I think that *maybe* you're asking too much out of a 212 - even though it's a very good one...

    - georgestrings
  18. Fretlessboy


    Nov 29, 2007
    St Augustine Florida
    Endorsing artist GENZ BENZ/HERCULES STANDS/XSonics
    shuttle 6.0 would work well.
  19. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    A heavily clipped signal (essentially a square wave) can deliver up to 2x the maximum RMS sine wave power, generally about 1.75x due to power supply/amplifier sag. It's impossible to deliver 3x, so that myth is easy to shoot a hole into.

    As far as the square wave causing mechanical damage due to the rapid transitions, the speaker cone doesn't much care one way or the other due to mechanical inerta and momentum. It will round those transitiions and that's not a problem either as long as the power levels are within the rating of the cone driver. Note the 2x comment above. ;)

    The biggest problem with a clipped signal is to the high frequency driver, a square wave consiste of many harmonics if a fundamental sine wave, and these harmonics shift the power density spectrum up, causing a posible overload and damage to the HF device.

    Another problem is that with a high level clipped signal at very low frequencies, the driver will become inloaded in the cabinet, and the cabinet's power handling capability will decrease. The damage is still caused by delivering more power than the driver/cabinet combination can handle. I know Bill has touched on this point many tims, as have I.

    Hope this helps.
  20. will33


    May 22, 2006
    Should add some to my previous post. Yes, a Carvin B1500 is as much power as you're going to get in your price range and that's brand new. I also play a T-MAX and haven't yet needed more power, I run mine with a 15 + 210 setup. I see you're running a single 212 cab. The Peavey already puts out enough power to push any single cab to it's excursion limits save for maybe a 412 or 810 so yes, try adding another cab. The T-MAX runs plenty stable at 2 ohms. You'll also find it sounds quite strong compared to other amps with similair power ratings. If you want a more old school sound try putting a Mullard 12ax7 or 12at7 in the pre-amp. The solid state pre on this amp sounds pretty old school too.

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