Compression: All or nothing at all?

The only reason I comp the bass - in the PA that is - is so that when the stage rig gets loud and twanky (string slaps/pops, etc.) the compressor keeps the PA from joining in, so as to keep the volume in check (I prefer a TC Triple C, as it can - if desired - smash the twank yet leave the balls and growl untouched).

So far as I know I've encountered only one bassist who used a compressor. He playing style did not include any techniques that would required compression in the house (I took my signal from his wireless - pre compression). I doubt that the compressor in his rig accomplished much, but he was happy and his volume was reasonable, so I was happy. If the compressor does not make you happy, take it out and see what happens. (But first, try a slower attack time, as this can sometimes be the most critical adjustment.)

Perhaps you should put some bass into the drummer's wedge, EQd on the thin side, so he can hear your pitches better, and get a better idea of how tightly you are playing together.

 

Try taking the active pad off and see how that helps. I'm not familiar with the Aphex, but I'm familiar with active pads, and it's possible that it's attenuating your signal so much that it's sucking out your dynamics even with the light settings you're using.

 

I never use compression. To me, that's a "room" thing, and the FOH eng. should know the room well enough to use it at his/her discretion. Just concentrate on even playing.

 

The Punch Factory is barely capable of compression in the first place. Having the drive knob set so low means there really is almost no compression happening. Note too that I am fairly sure the gain reduction meter is wildly inaccurate, so even if it "says" you're getting a certain amount of compression at those settings, I wouldn't believe it.

What all that means, even if your views are not as extreme as mine, is that the compressor has pretty much nothing to do with whether your drummer can hear your dynamic changes. Either he's deaf, or he sees the lights flashing on the pedal and it makes him hear things differently (we are all subject to this sort of "hearing with our eyes"), or something else about your rig is reducing the audibility of dynamic changes. I also strongly suspect that the difference he's hearing has a lot more to do with live/stage acoustics and the PA monitors as contrasted with the sound in your rehearsal space, than anything to do with the Punch Factory.

Again, you have the world's weakest compressor at a super weak setting. How much do you really believe it is affecting your dynamics? Unless, as the one guy mentioned, the active pad is negatively affecting your signal.

It's up to you whether you find compression useful or desirable. But (a) I would not take the PF as an example of compressors in general, and (b) I honestly believe your drummer is hearing something different than he thinks (or you think) he's hearing.

 

You may try using an exciter (BBE sonic maximiser/Aphex bass exciter) instead if you are after getting more efficiency out of your rig. I used to use a Behringer rack 'ultramizer' that made up for deficiency in my amp at the time. Gave me a much bigger sound that the amp could on it's own, with much deeper satisfying lows and clearer highs. As one of my friends noted, paired with my compressor it gave a studio sound in a live rig.

You may find this helps define you're dynamics more and the tone will be clearer for your band mates.

Be careful with these units though, it's very easy to over cook the effect and lose your midrange.

 

the reason you cant play quiet is because of the compressor. thats the reason there is no difference. you play quiet, the comp turns up the volume. you cant win. i set mine (avalon 737) so i only compress the peaks. in other words the compressor only activates when i play too loud, such as popping, or a heavy finger strike.. you can control this with the threshold control. the threshold determins at what volume the comp kicks in. that way, the subtle dynamics are preserved when the comp is not actually working. to adjust, turn the thresold off, play a medium finger note, then a pop. notice the volume difference. turn up the threshold (this determines at what volume the comperssor starts working)until the comp starts to make the pop quieter, but the finger the same volume. then you can mess with the compression ratio (how much the unit compresses the signal once its activated) to flavor to taste. even better is no compressor at all, i have to use one cuz i play with a pick and fingers, sometimes switching during a song. fingers have more output than a pick. (at least for me) johnny a

 

+1 to Bongo. The Punch Factory is an extremely light compressor, and with conservative settings like yours, I'm absolutely certain it has nothing to do with your drummer's inability to hear your dynamics. The issue is monitoring - he's got to hear you in general before he can hear your dynamic changes.

 

I'm anti-compression. It's like those days when I played an active bass, it was hard to hear any dynamics. Once I moved back to passive, I sounded like an arse because I wasn't controlling my picking strength and style. Compression will just make you worse.

Learn to play equally with your fingers, rather than with a piece of hardware.

 

For our smaller system, 4000 watts out front, I use compressor on Drums only. I think thats all thats needed, and thats just to tame the hits a bit.

 

I'll bet there's a particular frequency range that's so hot in your cabinet - off to the side - that no matter how quiet you get, that one area drones incessantly - for him anyway. 160Hz is pretty hot in most 4x10s for instance (this is 2 octaves above your open E). There's commonly a minor bump about 65 as well, which is just above the lowest B on your A string. (Below that, the response of most cabinets drops like a rock). I find that most bassists are so used to this that they fail to notice even when they are wireless and they walk the room - which is going nuts at that (or another close) frequency range. Regrettably, few bass heads have the EQ required to flatten the 160 hot spot. (Like one of the rigs I worked with this evening: The bass sounded very nice in the phones and in the PA, but even with the low mid all the way down on the GK head, the Eden 4x10 was spitting out so much upper bass/lower mid crap that it was barely tolerable in the room, because the head's low mid EQ was not at the right spot. (I had the offending area all the way down in bass channel of the PA, which made it all work fairly well.) (In fairness, a lot of soundguys also either don't notice it, or don't bother to try to solve the problem.)

Of course if the PA is not helping the bass, and the rig is not too hot in the room at any given frequency range, the drummer will just have to suck up, stop whining, and play.

 

How about pointing the 1x12 at him and the 2x10 at you? (Or vice-versa.) If that does not work, put one beside him pointing at him, and one behind you. If you get the right spacing between the cabinets, you might get a cancellation at the range that bugs him. For 160Hz, I think that either 21" or 42" apart might do it.

 

The more I read about your struggle, the more I came to the same conclusion.

If I offered to bring a seperate rig just to make him happy and he still bitched, I would be done with his problem.

Good on ya for trying to go the extra mile. I wouldn't. It's the nature of how most bands set up that the drummer ends up too close and off axis to the bass cab to get any real clarity of bass tone. IMHO

 

in my experience, small amount of compression + active basses = loss of dynamics
i dont know why but with the compression i have used always sucked away the real sound of any acctive bass