Considering a Boss LS-2 for Clean/Dirt blending but I have a stupid question....

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by jwilson67, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. jwilson67

    jwilson67

    Jun 2, 2015
    San Dimas, CA
    Couldn't I just achieve the same results with a small Mackie mixer I already own and a volume pedal before my Hardwire CM-2 and a Y-cable?
     
  2. socialleper

    socialleper Bringer of doom and top shelf beer Supporting Member

    May 31, 2009
    Canyon Country, CA
    I'm having a little trouble picturing your signal chain.
    You would have to split your bass, go one clean into the mixer, one through the pedal to the mixer, then out of the mixer into your amp or next pedal. Sounds like a lot of work. Even if the mixer has a effects loop you still have to watch out for impedance issues.
    The only time I did something without a blend pedal is I had a Mesa 400 with two inputs and a DBX Mini-Comp with stereo outs. I ran each out to a different input and then adjusted the volume as needed. Sadly dual inputs aren't common on small class D heads.
    LS-2 pedals are cheap and easy to find used.
     
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  3. jwilson67

    jwilson67

    Jun 2, 2015
    San Dimas, CA
    I'll explain it more clearly:



    Bass - Y cable - 1st side - Zoom B3 - Channel 1 on mixer
    2nd side - Distortion - Channel 2 on mixer (volume pedal which I already have to shut off)
     
  4. boomertech

    boomertech Frank Appleton Commercial User

    Apr 8, 2009
    Syracuse, NY
    Designer/Owner of FEA Labs
    Yes, a mixer will do what you want. Be aware that sometimes a phase reversal switch will be necessary on one of the channels to keep the signals aligned properly.

    -Frank
     
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  5. jwilson67

    jwilson67

    Jun 2, 2015
    San Dimas, CA
    Are there any signal path benefits the LS-2 has over a dedicated mixer or is it just simply a 2 input line mixer with switchable inputs in pedal form?
     
  6. boomertech

    boomertech Frank Appleton Commercial User

    Apr 8, 2009
    Syracuse, NY
    Designer/Owner of FEA Labs
    The LS-2 has several mixing modes. So it can do the A+B parallel mode that you originally were asking about, plus it can also run the two loops in series. It has a few other modes to select from.

    -Frank
     
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  7. socialleper

    socialleper Bringer of doom and top shelf beer Supporting Member

    May 31, 2009
    Canyon Country, CA
    That's a lot of points of failure. Plus a mixer is prone to getting its knobs moved in transit if you are playing live. That's a lot of knobs to check before playing.
    If this is for recording or just noodling at home it might work. The only advantage is that you can EQ the two channels separately through the mixer.
     
  8. BassikLee

    BassikLee Commercial User

    Feb 13, 2004
    Starke, FL
    Owner: JLA Custom In Ear Monitors


    Pet peeve time:

    Polarity, not phase. Phase has a time component. Polarity does not.

    Thank you, drive thru.
     
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  9. boomertech

    boomertech Frank Appleton Commercial User

    Apr 8, 2009
    Syracuse, NY
    Designer/Owner of FEA Labs
    What is the time component of two signals that are opposite by 180 degrees?

    All thru technical and engineering college we studied the relationships of waveforms as phase angles.

    -Frank
     
  10. Ya, and ls2 lacks phase switching also.
     
  11. That's important when on many distortion pedals the return signal is opposite polarity.

    Having tried clean blends, I found crossover separation works far and away better.
     
  12. Grumry

    Grumry

    Jul 6, 2016
    Nashville
    If the peaks are hitting at the same time but one is positive and one is negative then they are out of polarity but still in phase. Polar opposites will cancel eachother out, while having the polarity matching will double the signal. The amount of doubling or halfing is affected by how well in phase (time) they are.

    Think of miking a snare drum, and also having overheads. The snare mic picks up the snare first, and a few milliseconds later the overheads will get the snare. They are out of phase due to the timing but still(hopefully) matching polarity. If you had a snare bottom mic, it's polarity would be opposite the mics picking up signal from the opposite side of the source.

    That was probably confusing. Just remember phase is time and polarity is whether a positive or negative peak in the wave form happens firs.
     
  13. BassikLee

    BassikLee Commercial User

    Feb 13, 2004
    Starke, FL
    Owner: JLA Custom In Ear Monitors
    Zero. Those two signals would be in phase, but out of polarity. That was my point. If you're not adjusting time, you're not really changing phase.
     
  14. What distortion are you thinking of? There's a whole bunch now that come with clean blends.
     
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  15. nope. They are 180 degrees out of phase.
     
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  16. boomertech

    boomertech Frank Appleton Commercial User

    Apr 8, 2009
    Syracuse, NY
    Designer/Owner of FEA Labs
    Here is a post I made a while ago about this exact subject:

    "When dealing with a 180 degree phase difference between the output signal with reference to the input signal, all of the terms have the exact same result. Inverting phase, flipping phase, inverting polarity and flipping polarity all have the same end result and all are technically correct.

    This circuit is technically known as a phase splitter, not a polarity splitter:

    08121imgCB.gif

    It has one input signal and two output signals. One of the output signals is in-phase with the input and the other is 180 degrees out-of-phase.

    If you flip the hot wires in a balanced cable or on the connections to your speaker, you are inverting the phase by changing the polarity of the connection. In a 3-way speaker it is necessary to sometimes reverse the polarity of the mid driver for proper phase alignment with the woofer and tweeter. By flipping the polarity of the driver you have corrected the phase. But when being discussed, you would say that the mid driver is phase aligned… not polarity aligned.

    If you were to measure an output signal that was rotated 200 degrees from the input signal, you wouldn’t say it is opposite polarity plus a 20 degree phase shift. You would simply say that it is phase shifted or rotated by 200 degrees. What’s funny, is when the phase is changed by exactly 180 degrees these terminology debates surface. You will never see them for any other amount of phase rotation."

    -Frank
     
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  17. BassikLee

    BassikLee Commercial User

    Feb 13, 2004
    Starke, FL
    Owner: JLA Custom In Ear Monitors
    I stand by my polarity statement, polarizing tho it may be. Really didn't intend to phase you.
     
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  18. SteveCS

    SteveCS

    Nov 19, 2014
    Hampshire, UK
    The potential problem with a simple splitter, especially with a passive instrument, is driving 2 loads directly can suck the life from your tone due to the lower overall impedance of the load. Buffering before splitting, which the LS2 does, can help.
     
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  19. skimming through this thread I would just recommend the LS2 will do what you want plus 12 different other things later on, but simpler. It is essentially a mixer in the sense you (and I) use it to blend in dry, but much more foot friendly than a mixer, or Y cables, or so on and so on.
     
    grillman likes this.
  20. grillman

    grillman

    Dec 15, 2014
    The only better alternatives I found to an LS-2 type pedal is two amps.
    Going through the mixer might work but what a hassle ... You can find an LS-2 for under $50