Continuing the 50 HZ issue

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by chiplexic, May 14, 2004.

  1. chiplexic


    Apr 21, 2004
    For those who question the 50hz tuning of the Avatar cabs heres some (freq. at +/-db ) ratings of some leading manufactures . Interested in the opinions of brighter minds on these specs verse cabs with 50hz. Such as, will most of us hear the difference . Does open E string sound different on 50 hz cab as opposed to a lower freq. rated cab?

    SWR Son of Berth. -3db 45hz
    Eden D115xlt +/- 2db 46 hz -6db 38 hz
    GK 115 B Series 50hz +/- 5db
    Ampeg SVT15 E 50hz -3db
    Ampeg BXT 115hl4 -3db 42 hz
  2. LJW


    Feb 8, 2002
    northeastern pa.
    Enclosure tuning does not equal frequency response.
  3. chiplexic


    Apr 21, 2004
    >>.Enclosure tuning does not equal frequency response.

    That's understood.Your correct. That's why I say "continue of 50hz issue" Previous thread hit on both points,tuning and freq range. But what a cab was rated at on the lower end ,we agreed,should be followed by what dB it was tested at by manufacturer(guess I shouldn't have mentioned tuning ,bad choice words). As one person said manufacturers can pad specs by not giving enough reference points in their testing. SO here is some quick findings for anyone who was wondering what +/- dB was used in establishing freq spec of your favorite cab. And maybe some surprises there.
  4. For every manufacturer on earth, there are 20 ways to measure. If you don't fully comprehend the specs and how they translate to the real world (I don't know if ANYone does), judge with your ears, not the specs list. Or read up on loudspeaker specifications, design and performance (Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker design cookbook" is a very good reference), and then use a combination.

    I like to see myself as a loudspeaker designer and I know quite a bit about the physics and math involved, but I would never select a cabinet by specs alone. I'm able to filter out things I definitely DON'T like, by looking at specs alone. Most Edens, Ampegs, Hartkes, Fenders are - to me - not even worth trying out. The specs tell me I will not, ever, like those.

    Loudspeaker cabinets are like bass guitars: would you ever order a bass guitar without having played it?
  5. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Supporting Member

    Excellent post overall! The answer to this one point, however, is that some people either don't have access to good gear, or don't want to be limited to the gear that they have access to... for example, if it's only Eden, Ampeg, Hartke... :D
  6. chiplexic


    Apr 21, 2004
    >>>Most Edens, Ampegs, Hartkes, Fenders are - to me - not even worth trying out.

    You seem to be on top of the technical end of this topic so I would like to know what you consider to be a good cab make. In any set up 1-15", 2-12" ,2-10" . Also what is a good looking spec in your mind. Of course it has to be realistic. In other words something that is from an avalible product.
  7. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
  8. chiplexic


    Apr 21, 2004
    "Contradiction" Missed that at first,very good point Alan
  9. Not to be objectionable, but there's no contradiction if you take it in context.

    Simple enough.
  10. Some makes that make me watermouth (because I can't afford them!) would be: Tech soundsystems, Hevos, Phil Jones, Accugroove, Acme, Euphonic, etc. etc.

    I prefer my own cabs over "normal" music shop makes, with a few exceptions.

    A good spec is a spec that you know translates to something you like. This means you have to figure out: a. what sound do you like; and b. what specs are important for that sound. If you are a fan of void deep sub bass (like I am), you can't really settle for a -3dB point at 60 Hz. It has to be 30-ish. Which means large, long-throw drivers and massive amount of power. If you're a fan of a poppy funky style sound, you'll want to make sure you have a projected midrange and a snappy bass range, something with 8s or 10s and a low group delay, possibly a closed cabinet. If you like a growly, dirty blues sound, you could try playing speakers with a limited excursion, so they'll distort easily.
  11. MascisMan


    Nov 21, 2003
    Dallas, Tx
    this is a good thread.

    So I am currently using an Ampeg SVT-410HLF. the specs show the freq range to be 48hz-18khz at -3db. I am told that on a standard 4 string bass the E string is 41hz.

    I have noticed that my A string is louder than my E string on my J-bass when played through the Ampeg cab. Does that mean if I were to get a cab that has a tuned freq range closer to 41 hz that my E string will be heard/felt better and that my E and A strings will be better balanced, volume wise?

    To go even further the cab I have been eyeing lately is a Bergantino HT322. This cab has a freq range of 39Hz-18khz. It also has a sensitivity of 104db and has power handling of 800 watts.

    It looks as though the Berg will trounce the Ampeg for what I want to do. Given that I wont have the volume drop off with my E string (39Hz tuning), it has a better sensitivity by 6 db (which means it will take less power to push the speakers), and can handle 400 more watts than the Ampeg! So are my assumptions correct? Plus it is 17 lbs lighter to boot.

    I am a complete novice when it comes to cab tuning and using frequencies to my advantage so please be gentle. lol. :p
  12. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Go play them. Specs are limited as you will have different real world experiences in different rooms and outside. Which one are you going to make music with? The audience won't enjoy test tones for long.
  13. inazone


    Apr 20, 2003
    I have a 322. I dont know alot about specs and I got them cos they sound great. On the spec thing with the 322, the 104db is at 2.83 volts. I think what this means is that when you compare the 322 104db @ 2.83 volts to another cab at 100db 1w/1m, to make things equal, the 322 is 101db 1w/1m. Basicaly the 322 is measured at 4ohms and the other cab measured at 8ohms so you have to take away 3db from the 322 to get the 1w/1m thing. Im not sure about this but I think thats it.
  14. And don't make a decision based on what you hear in the music room at your local Guitar Center. The cabs won't sound anything like this when used at a real venue.

    Just because it looks good sitting at the bar, doesn't mean it will perform well in a hotel room. You have to actually try it out in the venue where it will be used.

    Also, if you play with full PA support regularly, your rig is essentially just a stage monitor. Size it to fit your needs and let the PA handle what the audience hears. If you plan on playing street gigs and other outdoors stuff, a couple of 10s isn't going to do the job.
  15. chiplexic


    Apr 21, 2004
    Don't buy based on specs,
    Don't buy unless you hear it,
    Don't buy based on name,
    Don't buy based on just hearing it in the store,
    Don't buy unless you play it out first

    You better not be too picky when shopping for a cab or you can drive yourself nuts!!!!!
  16. Suburban


    Jan 15, 2001
    lower mid Sweden
    Or why not just:

    Don't buy!

  17. Bottom line: Do the Avatars handle a low E well and sound good, and is the volume same as the other strings?
  18. chiplexic


    Apr 21, 2004
    >>>Bottom line: Do the Avatars handle a low E well and sound good, and is the volume same as the other strings?

    My thoughts exactly !! If anybody know the answer or has input I'd like to hear it.
  19. I ran a pair of Avatar B210s with an SVT-4PRO and a MIA Fender Jazz five string, and they handled high volume E and B string... Sounded just fine to me...very useable!
  20. Ok good I got depressed because i heard the Avatars didnt handle E, and all this 50 Hz talk. So I'm guessing I should get the Avatars. They wouldnt be so popular if they couldnt handle E anyways! Thanks Woofenstein.