Could modern music benefit from a Dogme 95 type movement?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by g-dude, Aug 8, 2022.

  1. Seeing that Lars von Trier was diagnosed with Parkinson’s brought this topic to mind.

    For those unfamiliar: Dogme 95 - Wikipedia

    Essentially what Dogme 95 sought to do was remove as much artifice as possible from the act of filming a movie.

    For music, this could possibly take the following form (feel free to add or subtract):

    1) No correcting of pitches or timing. A take must be used as it was recorded.

    2) No emulation. Music must be made using the original instruments/amps. For example, if you want an electric piano sound, you need to find one.

    3) Sound must be captured via microphones.

    4) No use of aids such as click tracks. Charts and sheet music are allowed.

    5) Instruments must be recorded at the same time. Acoustic isolation is allowed for instruments that were not originally amplified. You cannot mix and match different takes.

    6) Effects pedals are only allowed if they have a single function, are analog, and the general effect cannot be obtained by any other means.

    7) A band may not substitute studio players or use them for any instrument that can be played by the band.
     
  2. Back to the garage we go.
     
  3. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    8) Recorded with a live audience.
     
  4. Oddly

    Oddly

    Jan 17, 2014
    Dublin, Ireland.
    Never heard of this Dogme 95 concept before, but I'm all for it.
    Heck, it was good enough for many pretty decent bands in their early days...Those Beatle chaps, for one...
     

  5. Oooh. That is a good one.

    It’s funny - I’ve listened to classical music recordings where you hear a dude in the audience coughing, and it’s like for the rest of eternity that cough has been memorialized.
     
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  6. WG Plum

    WG Plum Supporting Member

    Apr 9, 2021
    Seattle
    Sounds like punk rock to me.
     
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  7. Bob_Ross

    Bob_Ross Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 29, 2012
    9) no recording, period. Play it once, boom, done. If someone wasn't there to hear it as it happened in real time, tough luck bro.




    [edit: Lest anyone think I'm being overly extreme or dogmatic...I am. And I'm only offering the above as the logical extension of #1-8 that came before.

    In short, I think what Dogme 95 refers to as "artifice" is what makes the recording of music such a lovely alternative to live performing of music.]
     
  8. Except that punk rock was a specific genre.

    There’s no reason why one couldn’t record folk music under the same principles.
     
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  9. Lot more work for musicians, and a lot more appreciation for live music, before recorded music.

    That being said, recorded music doesn’t need to be something inauthentic. Making it more like the experience of hearing it live could be just what is needed.
     
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  10. WG Plum

    WG Plum Supporting Member

    Apr 9, 2021
    Seattle
    Sure, of course. I'm just saying the DIY ethos/damn-the-torpedoes thing pretty much sums up the punk rock spirit. Of course, there are platinum punk bands nowadays, but punk is what immediately comes to mind for me. That's likely because I was born at the beginning of the 70s and folk wasn't a highly visible genre for me growing up.
     
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  11. chazolson

    chazolson Supporting Member

    Jan 8, 2013
    Reston, VA
    This is kinda an artificial boundary, no? Why shouldn’t Stanley Kubrick or Steven Spielberg use post-production stuff, or reshoots, or CGI when making a movie? Why shouldn’t Glyn Johns or Quincy Jones use every overdub, or any studio tool and “trick” there is, to make a track sound the way they want it to sound? I don’t agree that editing, or polishing, stuff makes it somehow less legitimate artistically. You get as close to the idealized sound in your head as possible.
     
  12. mongo2

    mongo2

    Feb 17, 2008
    Da Shaw
    Sounds like what we do whenever we play a show.
     
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  13. dbsfgyd1

    dbsfgyd1

    Jun 11, 2012
    Mascoutah, IL
    I have a whole catalog of DOGME 95 recordings of my work in bands over the last 11 years if anybody is interested. I recorded them on a digital recorder. 100% unaltered music played by real musicians... Think it would sell? LOL!!

    EDIT: While it's debatable if we've advanced the art of music forward, there are indications that this has improved my playing quite a bit. Just saying.
     
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  14. salmon256

    salmon256

    Jul 10, 2021
    NY
    I mean, all due respect you are comparing two different arts. Yeah music and film connect but many bands still today follow these types of rules. Delta Blues, Muddy Waters type blues, rarely are pedals use, to quote Muddy Waters mentally, literally he hated Electric mud since it used too many effects. Also there's tons of folk bands who follow rules like these, Irish music is based off oral traditional rarely standard notation. Classical music while improv was part of it way back then, today in classical music it's more about following sheet music. Depending on the era of jazz, has some rules to it unless it's very free form. As I always end my post, this is just my opinion and 2 cents.
     
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  15. Mighty Thumb

    Mighty Thumb Supporting Member

    Pretty sure Vulfpeck and Snarky Puppy have done quite a few recordings this way.
     
  16. Except that the technology becomes a crutch, and detracts from it.

    CGI in movies looks horrible. It ruins so many films, because it gets used to either save money or to do things that aren’t remotely physically possible.

    Put another way, we’ve had decades of fancy technology being thrown at music. Has music gotten better because of it? Have musicians gotten better because of it?
     
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  17. squidtastic

    squidtastic Supporting Member

    Apr 23, 2013
    The human element is largely missing from contemporary popular music, and I'm not happy about that, but practically speaking, you're just making an academic argument. It just isn't human nature to go back to a more difficult way of doing something. Sure, some people might have reasons to do so, but generally people will go the path of least resistance.

    Besides, there's definitely some music I enjoy that doesn't adhere to your proposed guidelines, and I see no reason to make it difficult (or impossible) for people to make that music.
     
  18. bolophonic

    bolophonic

    Dec 10, 2009
    Durham, NC
    I didn’t take the OP to mean that ALL music should be created this way.
     
  19. gln1955

    gln1955 Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Ohio, USA
    I wouldn't compare what the OP proposes to Dogme 95. That "movement" was a load of dogmatic draconian crap that would have prevented almost every classic film from being made.

    Although not nearly as bizarre as Dogme 95, these recording rules would killed many excellent studio recording from being made. The problem with modern popular music is not the tech, it's user error.
     
  20. Dincrest

    Dincrest

    Sep 27, 2004
    New Jersey
    I think we're slowly seeing popular music trending back in the direction of authenticity over autotune.

    The pop album "Sour" by Olivia Rodrigo has no autotune and on some of the songs on it, her pitch is a little off in places, but it's kept there because she was singing from an honest place and wanted it to be authentic. The production on that album is not quite as polished as you would expect on a mainstream pop album. And that album is home to the biggest pop song of 2021, "Good 4 U." That song was catchy, yet emotionally raw.

    (That being said, some artists like 100 Gecs use auto-tune in a wry ironic way, like in the song "Doritos and Fritos.")

    But, yeah, with our online presences needing to be as manicured and cultivated as they are, authenticity is becoming more highly valued again and albums like "Sour" are leading the trend in that direction.

    (We saw that in the 1980s- 1990s transition. The big spectacle shows of larger-than-life glammed out rock stars became a bit of a joke as music/pop culture trended towards a more "let's just be ourselves" paradigm).
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022