Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Could somebody please explain something

Discussion in 'Hardware, Setup & Repair [BG]' started by Bardolph, Sep 13, 2003.


  1. Bardolph

    Bardolph

    Jul 28, 2002
    Grand Rapids, MI
    I know this has probably been asked in certain forms before but I couldn't really find the answer I was looking for in the search. It is said that having a b string tuner farther from the nut will help with string tension. I don't understand how it is possible, seeing as to get the desired pitch you have to have a certain tension between the two fixed points, the nut and the bridge. I'd like to know how it is physically possible that an extended lengh of string past one of the fixed points can result in better tension.
     
  2. you're right. it doesn't. some companies decided that it would, but moving the b-string tuner further from the nut does nothing but reduce the angle the string makes over the nut, reducing the downward force on the nut, which is a bad thing, to a point (too much force can create tuning adjustment problems).

    there is no sound reason to extend the distance from tuner to nut.
     
  3. Mike N

    Mike N Missing the old TB

    Jan 28, 2001
    New York
    Moving the tuner further away could allow you to add a string tree, which would be used to increase the break angle over the nut. That is a good thing on Basses that dont have an angled headstock (read: Fender).

    The newer MIA Fenders went to the 4+1 headstock (instead of the inline five) and added a tree for the B and E strings. Ive owned both styles, and imo the B feels better on the 4+1(although I like the look of the inline five better).
     
  4. Bardolph

    Bardolph

    Jul 28, 2002
    Grand Rapids, MI
    So when fodera says their extended B models have exceptionally better response and tension it's just a placebo?
     
  5. I think you'll find a lot of its relative. If someone you respect says something, you'll believe it if you don't know better. Not just believe it but chances are you'll convince yourself its better too. I dunno if theres that much in it, cause it comes down to the scale length, string unit mass and quality of construction when it comes to tension of the strings. Fodera make expensive basses so I figure their construction must be okay, so chances are if you compare them to a similar factory made instrument with same scale length and strings, the Fodera will rank better. Whether its the construction or the extended B is up to you.

    Josh D
     
  6. In this case, if Fodera doesn't assign responsibility for the better tension to a string length issue, it's legit to advertise this. After all, it IS true that some basses have this characteristic and others don't. Pointing this out in your marketing is accurate and smart.

    It's when builders like Warrior claim that this (longer strings, thru body stringing, etc.) is the reason for better response that it becomes an issue of inflated claims above and beyond the laws of physics.
     
  7. well, basses with a 35" scale supposedly have a tighter B as opposed to 34" scale basses. you're pretty much trying to increase the string length so it has to be pulled more taut in order to get the string in tune. So if you moved the tuning peg further away from the nut, then you effectively increase the string length, making the string more taut when tuned to pitch. I think this is how it works...
     
  8. Depends on the angle of the headstock too, no?
     
  9. metron

    metron Fluffy does not agree

    Sep 12, 2003
    Lakewood Colorado
    There are a few factors that determine a strings pitch. Length, thickness and tension. When one of these changes, the others change accordingly. It is generally known that a thicker B string will have less definition. Take two strings under the same (constant) amount of tension. If one is longer than the other, it will need to be thinner to achieve the same pitch. I guess the concept is that if the length is greater, a thinner B string can be used and better pitch definition can be achieved.
     
  10. a 35" scale bass has tighter strings than a 34" bass because the 'voiced' length (distance between nut and bridge saddle) is lengthened. moving the tuner further from the nut doesn't affect the length of the part of the string that vibrates when plucked, so tension remains the same. if it did affect it, 4 inline and 2+2 basses would need different strings for the D and G.
     
  11. well this is how i'm thinking about it. you ahve 2 strings of equal guage, one longer and one shorter, and you have to tune them both to the same pitch. which one will be more taut?
     
  12. The longer one will have more tension, assuming the distance you are vibrating over is the difference in length you are reffering to.

    However if you say put two E strings on your bass, say .105 gauge, and tuned them to the E but had one where the E usually is and the other where maybe the G would be (assuming you have a jazz style headstock, it'll be about 5"-6" further away from the nut than the E). Both strings would have identical tension, possibly the slightest of differences due to the break angle over the nut.

    The only thing about the length of the string that affects tension is the amount between the fixed points. Outside of the bridge saddle and the nut you don't want the string vibrating, otherwise you'll get weird harmonics and overtones happening.

    Its only between the nut and the bridge saddle that its vibrating for, from the physics perspective you can consider anything outside these points as not even being there.

    Josh D
     
  13. oh, oops, duh, what was i thinking? since the tension would have to be the same...yeah...oops...i guess i wasnt really thinking there....pooo:bawl: