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Crown GLM 100 mic

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Povl Carstensen, Mar 7, 2016.


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  1. So it seems my trusted (15 years?) Crown GLM 100 microphone has given in. A recording attempt yesterday revealed too much noise. I think because its output has deterioated, so that the noise floor is raised to much because of the high gain needed. Is this common? Apparently they are hard to find fx on ebay. So if anyone comes across one or has one for sale I am interested. Their size and physical design makes it easy to use without a goose neck or anything.
    For now I am using a single element Underwood that I never really got to test out, so it will be interesting. I also have a Shadow, but the Underwood seems most promising.
     
  2. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Povi,
    I used a GLM 100 with my Fishman Bass Blender. It must work phenominally well with your bass. Last time I looked Crown was still selling them, so they must have discontinued them recently. Sorry, I sold mine long ago, but if you post a request in the Wanted To Buy Threads some one will still have one.

    Ric
     
  3. Earl

    Earl Supporting Member

    I have one I can sell you.
     
    Povl Carstensen likes this.
  4. I would like to try out other acoustic mics at a point (preferably in this size though for live use). Seems I am not allowed to post in classifieds. Does one have to be a paying member?
     
  5. jlmorgan84

    jlmorgan84

    Feb 16, 2014
    Clemson, SC
    I've used a Countryman Isomax 2 hypercardiod mic for several years on acoustic and folk gigs where I don't need to get that loud. It works great. Countryman makes a bass/cello mount that clips on the string after-lengths. It is virtually the same size and shape as A GLM, though I've heard they sound a bit different.
     
    Povl Carstensen likes this.
  6. Yes that looks very much like the Crown. I wonder if anyone here can elaborate on the sound difference? I remember trying both the GLM 100 (omnidirectional) and 200 (hypercardoid), and it seemed that the omni worked best. Because the proximity effect was very big with the hypercardoid, if I remember correctly...
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  7. jlmorgan84

    jlmorgan84

    Feb 16, 2014
    Clemson, SC
    I haven't tried the omni. The hypercardioid version does get muddy, you have to roll off the bass some to get a good sound, but I guess the trade off is you get more isolation and volume.
     
  8. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Povi,
    Yes, I believe you do have to subscribe to post. I'd also recommend that you take a look at the Ovid TBone I've owned both the Ovid and the Crown. To my ears the Ovid is a better mic.

    Ric
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  9. I just think it is nice to avoid a gooseneck, I like to keep the weight of anything I mount to my bass as light as possible. So the Countryman is an interesting alternative. Concerning omni and hypercardoid, I think one should be aware that the deck of the bass does serve as an acoustical "mirror", so perhaps you do not get as much isolation as you may think.
    PS: On the Countryman homepage, I have now seen that apart from the Isomax 2 microphone, they also have a "I2" microphone, which seems newer developed, and is specificly an instrument microphone, whereas the Isomax is multipurpose.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
  10. Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  11. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Povi,
    I'm not certian that mic will work as a live DB microphone. It certianly wasn't designed for that. If you look here in the DB classifides or ebay you can often pick up a used DPA 4099B (older model) very reasonably or an AMT or ATM even
    more reasonably. Just my opinion of course.

    Ric
     
    okcrum likes this.
  12. Paul -> Poul -> Povl (roman v=u), but Povi (misreading the lower case l as a capital I) seems to be a bit strange to me, at least not intended.
    Or this your kind of joking Ric and I didn't got that?

    The DPA was also not developed for double bass, just for several different instruments and double bass one of them (and even questionable if the bass was there in the first place or if it was used for bass later too).

    I once experimented with an Oktava MC-012 through the underlengths (rubber band mounting method) with an omni, cardioid and hyper cardioid capsule.
    The cardioid capsule sounded the worst, the omni the best and the hyper cardioid just a bit less good than the omni. For isolation recording I would have taken the omni, for live or ensemble recording the hyper cardioid, but I would have avoided the cardioid whenever possible since it sounded so much worse.
    If you look at sensitivity diagrams, keep in mind that they are only valid for a certain frequency (range), usually around 1 KHz. For lower or higher frequencies the directional pattern differs largely (except for the omni, where the differences are rather small but still present). Some areas in the directional pattern can even have inverse phase!
    These frequency dependent patterns are also the reason for the colored sound in the near field or off axis of the directional microphones.

    The bass top is a reflector for sound waves, but since they are directed, the angle pointing the mic to the top might reduce this kind of influence a bit.
     
    Povl Carstensen likes this.
  13. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    +1 That's definitely a good point. When DPA released the 4099 they only had developed mounting adaptors for Violin and Guitar. They followed those to applications with a Double Bass, Cello, Brass, and Woodwind mount.

    Unfortunately, when you're in a live performance situation the DPA 4099B's of axis rejection makes it more resistant to feedback or bleed through from other instruments. I've owned and performed with the Crown GLM 100, an Audio Technica, the Applied Microphone Technologies SP25B and the DPA 4099. In my experience the DPA 4099 sounded far superior to any of those microphones, using my Mirecourt Bass, and Walter Woods Amplifiers. As an aside, the Ehrlund EAP trumps any of them, in regards to feedback, tone quality and simplicity, on my particular instrument.

    Recently, Gary Peacock used my bass for a concert here in St. Louis. It was outfitted with the DPA 4099B and the Ehrlund fed into a Grace Designs Felix. It sounded remarkable. You could really hear all the
    nuances in Gary's playing. I think the Grace's EQ section and it's 48 volt phantom really get at the timbre of a Double Bass.:)

    Ric
     
    Povl Carstensen likes this.
  14. Ric, I was talking about the three capsules with different characteristics for the Oktava small membrane condenser mic. I could repeat the test with the three capsules of my better sounding Elation small membrane condenser mics, but I don't think the results would be different in relation the capsule sound quality.
    The point was, that for the same internal condenser mic amp a hyper cardioid sounds better than a cardioid. I already said, that the best sounding omni was for isolated recording only, not for amplification.

    I have a ATM-35 that is very feedback resistant and could be even used with an amp, but the sound quality is not very good. And I have an Ehrlund and an MSP contact mic that, placed well, are very feedback resistant. But I was talking about which (air) mic characteristic sounds best in a certain context.

    Of course, a very good cardioid might sound better than a bad hyper cardioid, but as far as I remember the mics you listed are cardioids or maybe omnis.
    I don't say the DPA is not good, just that the same mic type as a hyper cardioid might perform better for our application.
    At the end we take the best we can get that works for a certain application.
    But I found it very interesting that the hyper cardioid had a better sound than the cardioid with good feedback rejection.
     
    Povl Carstensen likes this.
  15. The specs for the 4099 says "supercardioid". One thing both dpa and countryman praise their mikes for, is that they retain their frequency curve well in the different directions.
    Anyway my experience was as well was that I could not make the GLM 200 (hypercardioid) work soundwise, but I could with the 100 (omni).
    Edit: Here is a link that cleared the polar patterns up to me. It seems supercardoid is quite close related to hypercardoid.
    Multi-Pattern Microphones: What, Where and How? | Shure Blog
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  16. A super cardioid is beyween a cardioid and a hyper cardioid.
    I didn't know that the 4099 is a super cardioid, but it explains the good rejection.

    Nice explanation of polar patterns you have referenced!

    All polar patterns are mixes of an omni and a figure of 8, but with different percentages. The omni and figure of 8 are 100% + 0% of the other.
    The cardioid has 50% omni and 50% figure of 8, so that the negative phase on the back of the 8 and the positive phase on the omni cancel each out at the back.
    The hyper cardioid has more of the 8 than the omni, the canceling point splits and goes to about 110 degree from the front on both sides. The sensitive area on the back between the canceling points has inverse phase as the back of the figure of 8.

    BTW, figure of 8 mics sound well too, like the Troll.
     
    Povl Carstensen likes this.
  17. Very interesting explanation of 8, omni and cardoid, that even I could understand, after 2 or 3 readings...
     
  18. But doing so you also weaken the signal from the source you are trying to record/amplify, or..?
     
  19. A bit, but not much. But if the reflections don't get to the mic (or only a little bit) it's worth the lower amplitude of the bass.
     
  20. njonker

    njonker

    Aug 13, 2011
    There is actually a difference in the various 4099 models; the B model comes with a different microdot to XLR adapter that gives the thing a distinctly different sound, I.e. it seems there's no lo cut around 80Hz like there is on the guitar model. I've got both a G and a B model; the adapter for the G model is grey and black, and a different part number than the one for the B model which is all black. I can hear a sound difference between the two. So I'd say the at least updated the design for the B version.

    Niels.
     

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