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Crown XLS 2500 // Monique issue

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Finbase, Sep 18, 2013.


  1. Finbase

    Finbase

    Oct 12, 2010
    Espoo, Finland
    Hello folks!

    I've bumped into a problem that I can't solve, since I'm quite an ignorant as far as the electricity is concerned... So please be "gentle" towards me, I'm quite simpleton on this subject!

    My current rig is Jule's Amps Monique-preamp and Crown XLS 2500-poweramp, and I'm using Barefaced Big Baby T -cabinets.

    For some reason It's impossible to get the volume level loud enough, even though the poweramp is 2500 wats, which is insanely powerful on the paper... Anyway, I have to ALWAYS, even in moderate stage levels, turn the preamp level and poweramp output level both completely full, and still I can't reach the amount of volume I'd need. I had this same problem also with Ampeg SVP 3-Pro preamp which I used before Monique.

    At first I thought that maybe the Barefaced cabs are just extremely power-hungry equipment. But then I borrowed my neighbour's EBS Reidmar head, which is "only" 250W. BOOM, it went insanely loud, and I had the gain turned on 50% and output volume 20%. I have never reached that amount of volume with my Crown XLS 2500, and there were still a loooong way to go as far as the output volume level was concerned!

    I also attached my Monique to Reidmar, and almost blew out the ceiling. It went extremely loud.

    Then I tried my Monique/Crown rack with another cab, namely Aguilar db112. The same problem: I needed to crank the volume up to the maximum again, and I still sounded like Mickey Mouse...

    So the conclusion is that there's something wrong with my poweramp. I just have no idea what it might be, it should be functioning properly... Do you have any ideas what can be possibly, some kind of "electric miss-fit"?

    As far as the specs go, the preamp has a extra feature that one can increase the preamp's voltage output: one is able to get a 4db increase in both the Line Level and the Balanced XLR outputs. That gives up to (+4db 1.25Volts) from the Line Out and (-10db .775Volts) from the Balanced XLR output. But the Crown XLS 2500 power amp requires 1.4Volts RMS to go to full volume, so I'm just wondering are either of those "strong enough"...

    I asked this same question form Jule and Alex (Barefaced developer), and though I don't question their expertise, I just thought I might ask here as well, if someone has had similar problems with Crown XLS poweramps.

    So anyone, any ideas how to solve the problem?

    Please, help a dumb in a trouble!!:help:
     
  2. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Finbase,

    Does your Monique have a pull pot on the main/line out? If so, are you pulling it out? Jule added a mod to more recent Moniques where you can pull the output control for more level to your amp. If you don't have this, you may wish to have him update it. It was done for just such problems. Edit: I see you are running with the line level pulled. You should be in reasonably good shape there.

    The problem you're running into most likely is a mismatch between the level that the Monique provides and the input sensitivity of the XLS. One of the difficulties of the XLS is it's needy on the input.

    Don't be afraid to run your line level all the way up or nearly so. Also, your two cabs are 8ohms each? Are you running them off of each side of the amp, are you running them off one side or are you bridging?
     
  3. svtb15

    svtb15 Banned

    Mar 22, 2004
    Austin,TX - McKinney,TX - NY,NY, - Nashville,TN
    I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
  4. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Also, when I had a problem with my Monique (one of the first rack models), Jule was WAY helpful. Don't be afraid to discuss with him.
     
  5. Finbase

    Finbase

    Oct 12, 2010
    Espoo, Finland
    Thanks for your reply!

    I'm actually running ALL the levels, Monique output level and Crown XLS levels both full, and still it's lacking with volume...

    My cabs are 8ohms both, and they are bridged (which means that they are running now as 4ohms, right??)

    I'm afraid that Crown and Monique just don't gwt along too well...
     
  6. Finbase

    Finbase

    Oct 12, 2010
    Espoo, Finland
    Yes, Jule have been extremely helpful, and he actually posted the same question in the thread titled Monique club part IV.

    I've sent my posts there, too.

    But as a public note: Jule is absolutely wonderful person, and takes very good care on his clients. Genuinely helpful and frienldy guys like Jule are rarities!
     
  7. DWBass

    DWBass The Funkfather

    Is the Limiter engaged on the Crown? Are you running the Crown bridged?
     
  8. Finbase

    Finbase

    Oct 12, 2010
    Espoo, Finland
    By limiter do you mean the optional "channel 1 clip" and "channel 2 clip" features? Yes, the channel clip feature is on.

    I'm running the Crown in the Bridge mode, so yes, it's bridged.
     
  9. DWBass

    DWBass The Funkfather

    That may be keeping the amp from acheiving full volume. Also thats 1550 watts into a cab that peaks at 750w (200w-750w@8ohms). Do you really need that much power going into that cab?
     
  10. tbirdsp

    tbirdsp

    Sep 18, 2012
    Omaha, NE
    I think it's just that the Crown requires more input voltage. I have a XLS2000 and XLS1500 I use for PA.

    I at first tried to use the XLS2000 bridged for subs and a Peavey IPR1600 DSP for the top cabs. Because the input sensitivity was so different between the two amps I couldn't really get a good balance between sub and mid/hi even with the low freqs cranked on the crossover. My solution was to buy the XLS 1500 so I had two amps with the same input sensitivity.
     
  11. Finbase

    Finbase

    Oct 12, 2010
    Espoo, Finland
    I'll try tomorrow to engage the channel clips off. Thanks for the tip!! Although I'm a bit afraid that it won't solve the problem...

    No, I honestly don't need that much power, nobody does. But the problem is, that for some reason my 205W Reidmar outperforms my Crown XLS hands down... :meh:???
     
  12. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Are you 100% positive you have the correct speaker cabling?
     
  13. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Have you tried it with a cab on each channel unbridged, and with both cabs on a single channel. If so, did it exhibit the same lack of volume? I don't know the XLS topography...does it need a special speakon cable or a specially wired speakon, if so, do you have that.
     
  14. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Just checked the manual. Yes, it needs the dreaded and often problematic asymmetric cable config.
     
  15. Stone Soup

    Stone Soup

    Dec 3, 2012
  16. tbirdsp

    tbirdsp

    Sep 18, 2012
    Omaha, NE
    So have you engaged this "extra feature"? Are you using the line level or XLR to feed the Crown? I'm no expert, but I would think the +4db/1,25 volts would be enough to get acceptable volume.

    Even if you have the bridge cable wrong, one side of that amp puts out 440 watts to 8 ohms! I'm telling you guys - the problem is on the input side, not the output. If you give it the input voltage it wants to see the XLS amp puts out PLENTY of power.
     
  17. Finbase

    Finbase

    Oct 12, 2010
    Espoo, Finland
    No I haven't... I'll try that!

    And no, I don't have any special speakon cable. Should I get that Victor Wooten signature cable? ;) Only joking...
     
  18. Stone Soup

    Stone Soup

    Dec 3, 2012
    Crown Manual

    You won't get the bridged output without the proper cable.
     
  19. Finbase

    Finbase

    Oct 12, 2010
    Espoo, Finland
    Okey, I think we're getting there!

    I have two question:

    1)What kind of cable do I need? Could you send some kind of website link of such product? I didn't know that a regular speakon cables aren't "good enpugh".

    2) Sorry, this might sound dumb but... What do you mean by the separate bridged output? Some external device?
     
  20. Stone Soup

    Stone Soup

    Dec 3, 2012
    I mistakenly wrote separate. I edited the post. You use the channel 1 output connection, but the cable is wired differently.

    From the manual:
    Bridge-Mono Mode
    "2. b. If using a Speakon® connector, connect the positive terminal of the speaker to 1+ and the negative terminal to 2+.
    Plug the connector into the Channel 1 output only"

    A standard speakon cable only outputs one side of the amp.
     

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