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DB750 with AE410 Opinions

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jazzmcs, Apr 22, 2009.


  1. jazzmcs

    jazzmcs

    Feb 26, 2009
    So I like my newly aquired DB659 so much that I am considering investing in a DB750 before they run out. I'm sure it will smoke my mackie power amp and if it sounds pretty darn close to my DB659 I'd be very happy. I'd also dig the fact that I could just put it in an aguilar rack bag to sling over my shoulder (still heavy I know) instead of carrying a 6 space rack around at 75lbs. Also, quite a bit different in weight than the Stew/DB659 rig I'm working on but with all the amazing reviews of the punch and thickness of the 750 it may be the right move for me. What I'm really liking about these Aguilar amps is that they work well for many styles of music. I play in a couple rock cover bands but I'm a jazz/funk guy and this brand works fantastic for both.

    So what do you guys think? Is it worth getting the DB750 vs sticking with the 659/Mackie 1400i rig into my Berg AE410?

    Thanks!
    Mike
     
  2. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    I don't know about replacing your existing rig, but the DB750 and an AE410 sounds like a great match to me.

    DB750 = Big low end, polite mids and highs
    AE410 = Tight low end, great mid and high response

    Try the tube swapping thing with the DB750 and that combination would absolutely smoke... It'd probably be killer even without tube swapping, I'm just spoiled :p
     
  3. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    i thought it was ok. the lower mids of the ae410 just seemed to "polite" as some seem to say here. and there's this weird hole from the tweeter's air to the upper end.

    i much preferred the steelier lows of the HS w/ the 750. but NO CAB could touch the sadowsky sa410 w/ a 750. fat, punchy, and super quick feeling. just a stupendous setup that i've long been considering for myself.

    oddly, the only head i really liked w/ the ae410 is the shuttle 6.0. nice high end sheen, who's tweeter really loved the highs knob of the shuttle; and i loved the dialing in the lower mids w/ the ae410. much more substantial and supportive feeling.
     
  4. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    How 'bout getting a QSC PLX1804 power amp.....1800 total watts, 13 lbs. That would make a lightweight rack rig (~25lbs.) that would rock!
     
  5. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member


    This description continues to make no sense, and is virtually opposite of almost every other TBers description of the AE410. :confused: The low mids are incredibly present in the AE410, and I don't even know what hole between 'air to upper end' is. If anything, the transition from the top of the drivers range to the start of the tweeters range overlaps too much, resulting in a bit of a bump around 2K. There is actually no hole whatsoever there, which can make the AE410 sound a bit 'ganky' without a bit of cut in the upper mids (versus, for example, the dip in the upper mids between the EpiUL driver upper end response and the start of the tweeter, which gives the UL's that very smooth, hi fi type top end that kind of sits on top of the sound of the drivers, versus being more integrated like the AE line of cabs).

    I personally like the slight more punch and articulation of the 659 versus the DB750 front end, which seems a bit more pillowy and big to my ear.

    I do agree that with the DB750, the singificant low end attenuation of the SA410 and those very tight surrounds (designed to tighten up the low end of the all tube Sadowsky head) would work very well with the DB750, which has a bit of bloom in the low end and a bit of a hole in the lower mids that can make it sound a bit fluffy with some cabs.

    And +1 to Tallboybass's suggestion that if the OP feels like he needs more power, it's easy to do that for relatively little cost with a different power amp.
     
  6. jazzmcs

    jazzmcs

    Feb 26, 2009
    My description of the AE410 is the same as Kjung's. It took some adjusting of my amps and ears to get used to this cab's tone, coming from an SWR background. Well it looks like I need to seriously think over getting a DB750. Seems the DB659 may be better than the 750 for my needs (due to its tightness and clarity over the 750) since I mix it up with rock cover bands, funk, and jazz. Hmm, well I'll keep looking at light weight power amps like the Stewart 2.1. Comparisons I've read between the Stew and QSC puts Stew in the lead by quite a bit. Also, I have read that the DB659 has trouble pushing a QSC. So I think the Stew is still the best match for the DB659 if I go the lightweight route. Thanks guys, I'll keep reading up.

    Mike
     
  7. Sufenta

    Sufenta Trudging The Happy Road of Destiny

    Mar 14, 2002
    The Signpost Up Ahead.
    I think the real question is whether or not you'd notice enough of a difference between your 659/power amp and the 750 to warrant making a change. Is the DB750 a monster head for rock, funk, and jazz? You bet it is! You'll believe your cab is hooked up to a 9 foot orange haired beast with white tennis shoes! I doubt you'd ever regret making the investment. On a purely mental note, with the split set-up I'd always be wondering if my name brand power amp was really doing justice for my Aggie pre.
     
  8. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    i was referring to people bandying about the word "polite" in general. not in regards to TB saying the ae410 cab is polite, (broken record on) tho i still find compared to my more favorite ceramic loaded cabs, it does feel that way to me.

    as for the hole, (broken record still on), when i went looking for that lighter than air r'n'r setup, no matter how i set the tweeter, i found it incredibly odd that w/ my lakie bob glaub, the overall sound lacked a certain upper end response that i've grown to love in berg cabs, and wasnt much more articulate than a pair of nearby GS112's. as for polite, i still dont think its as solid in the lower mids or lows like the awesome hs410, nor my beloved sa410, or said gs112's. maybe i wanted it to be something it wasnt, but it was too much coin for me to "take on a gig". again, this is IME.

    i could go on and on, but i wont. apologies for the derail. back on topic...

    one thing about the 750 i forgot to mention is that power section. sure, the 659 can get a nice overdrive, but the pants is in the 750's power section. married w/ the front end, it can be both brutally grunty and yet wonderously refined w/ a flick of the wrist. its like within all that science lies some real magic that aguilar could just release as a standalone. i'm hoping that this newer model doesnt mess too much with that.

    course, if anything, if you're coming from an SWR background, the shuttle 6.0 w/ the ae410 does a nice pseudo SWR like hifi sheen, but with more satisfying gui**** defying mids and presence. and the EQ points on the shuttle work beautifully w/ the cab. sure, you wont that big iron feel, but this combo is easily one of my more favorite setups. if you have a dealer in your area, i highly recommend it.

    btw, try PM'ing BigString. pretty sure he's had a few go'rounds w/ the 750/ae410 setup. and i wouldnt be surprised if he too had a 659 in his stable at one point.
     
  9. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    really? you can hear 2kHz? ;)
     
  10. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    Yes I can! The AE410 has quite a bump right around there. You can really hear it by turning the tweeter all the way down and then slowly bringing it up. While the tweeter is the same as in the HS410, there is more separation between the drivers and tweeter in that cab to my ear than the AE.

    That might be what you are hearing, since that strong upper mid lower treble response that is coming from the upper end of the woofer seems to sit right on top of the low crossover point of the tweeter. There is what seems to be a bit overlap between the upper end of the driver and where the tweeter kicks in. That makes the tweeter on the AE sound more 'mid grindy and aggressive in the upper mids' than the more typical 'airy' sort of Epi tweeter tone.

    It does mask some of the upper treble, since the ear hears those ganky upper mids more efficiently than the higher treble, and that might be what you are describing as a hole. I hear it more as a hump that's masking the upper treble, but that might be two different ways of describing the same thing.


    Edit: I agree with your comment about the DB750 power section completely. I always kind of wished for the 659 replacing the front end of the DB750. They look the same, but the 659 always sounded better to me. Maybe the 751 revised EQ section will make that update wound more like the 659 with the 750 power section... that would KILL IMO!
     
  11. Note: Average human hearing range goes up to 20kHz. :smug:
     
  12. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    I just took a test. I pretty much shut down at around 15K, but I guess at 52 years old, that ain't bad:D
     
  13. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    This goes a ways towards explaining your love of the super articulate and punchy rigs... and your constant hatred of my beloved DB750 ;) :p
     
  14. jazzmcs

    jazzmcs

    Feb 26, 2009
    I'll have to drop him a line, thanks.

    Man, I did a ton of reading up on switching amps today and it sounds like I just wouldn't be able to deal with one due to the sound to be honest. From my research (I admit I have yet to hear a Stew) getting a CA9 combined with my DB659 and furman power conditioner in a four space lightweight SKB rack may be the best idea even though it is very heavy. At least I could get it down to 4 spaces instead of 6 spaces. That would make it easier to get up my tight stairs (worst part of the haul). But I do admit that having all that power in one unit like the DB750 is tough to pass up. Even having ruled out the lightweight rig idea, I'm still hessitant to jump on a good deal on a 750 (price aside vs a used CA9) because I found a bunch of posts saying that the 750 sound quite a bit different for my needs (rock cover bands, funk, jazz) likely for the worse than the 659 into a CA9. It may just be too boomy lacking any real punch or definition. Sure the 659 isn't as defined or clear as my Demeter but it is certainly punchy and I have no issues with boom. Both would have the Aguilar thickness. I guess its just hard to believe that it is so different, well better from the threads, than the 750 pre. It really sounds like the DB659 into a CA9 would be absolutely killer. What do you guys think about this nowadays, since the comparison posts I read were rather old?

    Also, getting an LM3 or Shuttle would be my plan for ultra lightweight if I went the CA9/659 route (2 rigs).

    Still feeling this out guys so thanks :)
     
  15. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    :D No hatred, just not my thing. I tell you what though, if someone said I have to play out of an NV610 and a DB750 for the rest of my life, I'd bum out for about 30 seconds and then say 'As long as you give me a schmoe to schlep it, I'm in':cool:
     
  16. BartmanPDX

    BartmanPDX Supporting Member

    We had a GTG several months ago and I had the chance to hear a db750 through an AE410, and I thought it sounded great.

    What sounded even better was when we hooked up TWO AE410s to the DB750. :D
     
  17. buckminster

    buckminster Banned

    Apr 29, 2006
    Sacramento, CA
    Don't you mean the Bergantino sa410? :D
     
  18. Big String

    Big String Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2000
    Northwest Indiana
    You just had to say that didn't you.... :rollno:

    OK. I love the combo. I have a tube upgrade too.
    I think the DB750 and AE410 is whoopin' !!
    I would like to hear it with the HS410 and plan on it soon when I take a trip up to Chicago Bass Club. Also gonna try out some other Bergs for the fun of it.

    I'll also verify what Joker said about the discontinued Sadowsky SA410 and DB750 ... just killer. I didn't keep that cab cause it was too heavy and kinda hard to lift because it's square... the NV's were actually easier. yadda
     
  19. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    DB750 wouldn't work for rock? Wouldn't work for funk? I use mine several times a week for a funk/rock/hip-hop project and it absolutely kills. Boomy and lacking punch... This always makes me cringe. pairing the DB750 with the right cab eliminates this stereotype very easily. It seems to be a head that's very sensitive to the cab pairing. DB750 with an Epifani UL410 might lack punch, but certainly not with a Berg AE/HS, Schroeder, etc.

    Mine name could be "Schmoe" if you let me use the NV610 for my gigs on the nights I wasn't roadie'ing for you :p
     
  20. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    hah,

    my comment should have read "you can identify 2kHz?"

    and frankly, i'm sure there a few of us who can no longer hear that high anymore. :p
     

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