De-Gloss/De-Orange a Knilling

Discussion in 'Setup & Repair [DB]' started by Barefoot Larry, Jan 1, 2003.

  1. Someone I know picked up a Knilling bass from the Now-Defunct Mars Music.

    He considers it to be too glossy and too orange. <duh!>

    Can he de-gloss it by applying another satin finish over the existing Knilling finish, maybe Waterlox or Minwax Wipe-on Poly?

    If he did that, could he also add some kind of aniline dye to de-orange it at the same time?

    Would he need to prepare it with steel wool or something before applying the satin finish, or would it adhere okay just to make sure the bass is clean & dust-free before starting?
  2. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    Brewster, NY, USA
    He'd have to get some blue color on it to tone down the orange. I could not make a recommendation about what to use since I don't know what finish is on the bass. Chances are it's spirit varnish. This is a job for an experienced finish pro, not a wannabe...
  3. Wow! Thanks Arnold! I knew there would be some good information to be had here!

    Actually, I told the guy to register here on TalkBass and ask for himself, but he said that wouldn't do that because he'd heard many times over that this message-board was inhabited by a bunch of Condescending A**holes.

    I figured that I'd glean a little helpful info for him nonetheless, and maybe show him the skill and expertise to be found here.

    So, I'll be sure to pass along the advice that he needs to pay someone $1000 to put some blue onto his $1500 bass, and I'll tell him that that he's a "wannabe" of some kind, too.
  4. Jeff Bollbach

    Jeff Bollbach Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.

    Dec 12, 2001
    freeport, ny

    Lemme at 'em!
  5. Sam Sherry

    Sam Sherry Inadvertent Microtonalist Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2001
    Portland, ME
    Euphonic Audio "Player"
    Aha! Orange then blue! Good name for a band!
  6. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY

    I have a pretty good idea where he heard that, too... I won't defend the board over it, but I will say that you can't believe everything you hear. Besides, "***hole" is a pretty subjective term, isn't it?
  7. tsolo


    Aug 24, 2002
    Ft. Worth
    Here we go again. I think my opinion was a bunch of yankee p****s - there's a thread to that effect on here somewhere. But, i've found some pretty thoughtful guys (gals?) contribute to this board. I know one thing - I wouldn't want to be the one to advise you how to f*-- up a $500 bass much less a $1500 bass.
  8. I don't know where he heard it, but unfortunately I DID defend the board, and I'm certainly not going to argue it with him further, after this.

    I'd have to say that the "wannabe comment" seems un-warranted, and condescending...

    I've already emailed him back, with a cut & paste of the reply, and apologizing for insisting that he must be working from faulty information. :( My Bad.

    Oh well, what the hell! It's Only A Plywood and he should't have bought a shiny orange bass in the first place, eh? I suppose He can always get his answer from a Furniture Finishing forum somewhere.

    Along with my apology, I suggested that he might try the Musical Instrument Maker's forum. Maybe some of the Violin people there will be inclined to answer a simple question, without dripping any sarcasm off of it.
  9. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    Brewster, NY, USA
    I never said or implied your friend should spend $1000 or $1500 on his $1500 bass; only that a FINISHING pro would be needed to tackle a job like that and have it come out OK. Toning colors and adjusting gloss are advanced finishing concepts, best handled by a pro (not necessarily a luthier). If your Bud wants to take a shot at it himself, I'd be happy to share info, but my concern is that he would not be satisfied with the result. I used the term "Wannabe" simply to stir things up. Seems to have worked...
  10. jdombrow

    jdombrow Supporting Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Orange and then blue? Maybe he could get a gig with the Denver Broncos!
  11. Aniline (synthetic) dye is meant to dye unfinished wood. Either mixed with water or alcohol. Then top coated with whatever oil, water, spirit based finish. Trying to color an existing finish with more finish colored with aniline dye would require an excessive amount of the expensive powder and the results would always be questionable. (although touch-ups can be done like this) There are toners and tint-alls available at places like Stewart MacDonald or Liberon/Star. But again you would need so much pigment to actually cover the Knilling orange you might as well be using paint. (seriously!)Even if you had a spray booth. Plus you are adding all this finish to an already overly finished bass. The last glossy orange Knilling I saw was so opaque there was know way to see the actual grain of the mystery plywood veneers. But nice and shiny! If he really wants to refinish it I would strip it and start from scratch.(As long as he never ever wants to re-sell it!) As for the de-gloss I'm sure there is a big thread on that a while back.
  12. That might have been a curse... or a blessing.

    Kind of like how the right dress can hide a multitude of evils. :rolleyes:

    Thanks for the anwer.

    I don't know what he's going to do about it. I'm sure he got a good price, since I heard that the strings were in least demand during the Mars liquidation.

    Someone else I know picked up a Knilling Viola on the last day before they closed the doors here.

    He got it for a song, and they even threw in a case, which doesn't normally come with the instrument.