Dead spots on Ergodynes?!!

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by indie-visible, Oct 5, 2000.

  1. Now I think very seriously on buying an EDB, but the circustances are such that I may have to order it without having played it before... I know it's a wrong way, but I have no choice... And I would probably have problems with repudiating the order, if there will be something wrong with the instrument that comes. So...

    Here -

    are some reviews on Ergodynes, both EDCs and EDBs. In 3 of 8 of them, reviewrs mention dead spots on the neck. One of the reviewers had to return his bass, this bad the issue was. So this looked a problem inherent to both series.

    OTOH, no one mentions this problem in Harmony Central user reviews (and there are quite a few). On the contrary, some reviewers note that the tone and volume are absolutely even all the way up the neck.

    Strange, isn't it? Maybe they at Ibanez have fixed it?

    So can someone please clarify the point, or just express their opinion or personal experience. It's very important for me.
  2. ka-tet


    May 2, 2000
    My store carries Ibanez and find that most of the Ergodyne basses have dead spots. Sometimes they'll have more than one. The bass has a decent tone, pretty deep and cutting, but yes the dead spots can be annoying.
  3. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    It's not strange really - Ibanez make huge numbers of basses in large factories and some are going to be good ones and some bad ones - relatively speaking. The only way to make sure you get one of the "better" ones, is to try it first. If you can't, then you run the risk of getting a "Friday Afternoon" bass.

    There are similar problems with Fender and any other Mass-manufacturer. There are advantages with Fenders though - you have more support both from online communities like this one and from people who have played Fenders. Fender have stuck to their two basic models for many years so there are going to be a huge number of people who have experience of these and can suggest ways of improving them, setting them up etc. Whereas, with Ibanez, who change their models every year, you will be lucky to find one person who has played exactly the same model.

    There is a huge replacement parts market with Fender as well, that just doesn't happen with Ibanez, again because they change the models so regularly.

    Fender have got continuity and a large user base who act as support, whereas you buy an Ibanez and basically you're on your own and that's it!
  4. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    As Bruce said, almost all mass produced brands of basses have this problem and it will vary from one individual bass to another.

    The only way(s) to avoid dead spots altogether is to play the bass before you buy it and play enough examples of the model you want until you find the best one to your ears{sounds as if this is not possible for your situation}, buy an expensive bass from a well respected manufacturer with a good guarantee and return policy, or failing those options, buy a bass with a composite neck.

    The dead spot problem is much less likely(IME anyway) with more expensive, handmade basses. I've yet to find a Lakland, Pedulla, Ken Smith, Keith Roscoe, Alembic, etc bass with a noticeable dead spot.

    And of course, regrading composites, I'm sure NOBODY has ever found a Zon, Modulus, Peavey G Bass, etc with any kind of dead spot.
  5. Tsal


    Jan 28, 2000
    Finland, EU

    Emb, have you considered that if you buy a $1500 bass
    you don't go around saying 'oh, right, well it has
    few flaws in it although I paid 1500 bucks, some dead spots and stuff' :D But well ofcourse the qualitycontrol must be
    very high since who would pay 1500 for a bass that has dead spots?

    Local Ibanezdealer had never heard about dead spots
    on Ergodynes when I asked.. well he might be lying ;)
  6. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    I have considered that, but in the past you could pay dang near that for a top line Fender that always had at least 1 dead spot on the G string, 'though the graphite reinforced neck American Deluxe Series doesn't have that problewm, or at least it is not as noticeable as is used to be.

    And I've played $2000 Warwicks that had dead spots too.

    But I wouldn't pay that for a bass with a dead spot.
  7. In your experience, ka_tet, is this problem especially inherent to Ergodynes, as compared to Soundgears. Or to Fenders. Can you estimate this?

    Well, embellisher... you say "return policy"? Ibanez has to have some sorta return policy too? My situation is this: I have an Ibanez dealer in my city, but they don't have Ergodynes in stock now. So a buyer has to order one to get it. I suppose the process is: I pay half the price when I order, and the second half when I get the bass. I'll have the possibility to play it in the store when it comes, but I have to understand what my rights will be then - will I be able to repudiate? Of course I'm gonna clarify it with them before, but how do you think:
    1) can some general Ibanez's policy apply in this case and
    2) are dead spots generally accepted as sufficient flaws to consider the bass as one that can be returned (suppose, already bought)?
  8. And a theoretical question: where exactly do dead spots originate - in the neck? If so, then extra reinforced necks may help? (such as 5-piece in EDB690)
  9. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    Ibanez' return policy is irrelevant. The only time a manufacturer's policy matters is if you buy directly from them, as in Carvin, Salas, or a high end manufacturer that doesn't have many dealers and none in your part of the world.

    Since you are going through a dealer, what will affect you is THEIR return policy. If they are special ordering the bass for you, I can almost guarantee you that they are not going to give you your money back if you don't like it.

    RE: your post about the EDB690, multilaminated necks are more stable and less likely to have dead spots, so the EDB690 would be a better bet than a bass with a flatsawn or a two piece neck.
  10. ka-tet


    May 2, 2000
    I find that the Soundgears will have the typical "Fender deadspot" around the c#to the Dor d# range. The ergodynes will sometimes have multiple ones in different places. I think most of the problem is from the luthite bodies. I think they must have some weird resonance frequency or frequencies? that cancel out a few notes. There's a good thread somewhere in the forum about deadspots and it discusses the usual causes of dead spots like neck stiffness and so forth. I think the standard reasons for deadspots apply to this bass as well as whatever effect the luthite body causes.
  11. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    Man, ka-tet, if that's true, that really sucks.

    I guess that's a good reason to buy a wood bodied bass instead of a plastic bodied bass.

    I almost bought one of those Cort Curbows, if this is true, I guess I should be glad that I changed my mind.
  12. Hey ka-tet, do you mean G string, frets 6-7-8?

    Okay, I understand now well it's a bad idea to order. I talked to their sales manager recently - fortunately, they already have some Ergodyne coming in a month or two, so I'll wait and test it, and will probably buy a Soundgear or stuff if something's wrong. Thanks for input.
  13. DarkMazda


    Jun 3, 2000
    YOU PUT SALAS on there!! weee!!!!! Salas all the way

  14. thayer182


    Oct 1, 2000
    what exactly is a dead spot? if it is what I think it is then I have one on my ibanez gtr50 bass. on my G string on the 8th fret, it doesn't sustain hardly at all, and it's not the pick ups or the amp just screwing up that one note, cause I've played it at different spots on the fret board and it doesn't have that problem. is that a dead spot? if so my ibanez has one. I don't know if that helps any, but just lettin ya know from another ibanez player.
  15. thayer182


    Oct 1, 2000
    after I posted that last reply, I went and played my bass and noticed something weird... I was learning how to play "lithium" by nirvana. and the tuning is transposed down 2 frets. so I was just messing around after I learned it, and I played the 8th fret on my G string and it sounded fine. I went up to the 10th fret which would be the same note as the 8th in normal tuning, and it was messed up... now I really don't see why it does that. any suggestions?
  16. Lymie


    Jul 25, 2000
    I last played a MTD killer B (U$3000,-) with a killer dead spot!! So even with a killer price you get that spot you wish you wouldn't find. Dead spots also are related to the truss rod. A small manufacturer in Holland explained the problem to me in three hours, and truss rod was the word I remembered. On fretless basses the dead spot is even worse. I bought a 89 Warwick thumb 4 fretless neckthrough a few years ago and it also has a dead spot, but hell I bought for U$750,- and didn't know much about basses then. I do know and even with Sadowsky, Zon or any, i'll try before i'll buy
  17. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    Most wood necked basses have at least one spot where the sustain is not quite like it is everywhere else, although on better constructed basses it is not as noticeable.

    My Pedulla was very even sounding all over the neck, then wet weather and higher humidity came to Dallas and there is a classic Fender C on the G string dead spot, but on my Pedulla, the string sustains maybe 15 - 20% less, while on my Peavey, Fender and Westone(fretless), it is a true dead spot.

    But, strangely enough, my Ibanez SR506 has no deadspot that I can find anywhere.

    And when the rain went away in Dallas, so did the slight dead spot on the Pedulla.