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Deciding to bi-amp a 4x10

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by SHIFTGREEN, Jan 1, 2003.


  1. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    Hi, I have a few questions, I was wandering if it would sound better to have a 2x10 or a 1x15, everyone has there own preference but I played a 2x10 stacked on a 4x10 and I thought it sounded awesome, but I havent heard a 4x10 stacked on a 1x15.... is there a big difference on low end? I play 5 string and it carried the b pretty good.
    Also I really want to get the goliath junior, but after seeing the avatar 210, that looked cool, handling 700watts oppose to 350 watts from the Goliath, but I found out the delta 10 speaker goes to a low of 65hz i think, which is not low at all, it may sound different once in a cab and ported.
    Second Question
    Also i have a 400 watt head at 4ohms, my cabinet is an 8ohm cabinet, but by biamping it goes to 400 watts at 4ohms, and 260 at 8ohms, when I biamp I know the cab will then be powered by the full 400 watts, but what about the goliath? will it be powered by 400 watts as well, or does my amphead evenly divide, 200 watts for the 4x10, and 200 watts for the 2x10... thanks
     
  2. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    IMO, I think you will find that most 15's go lower than most 10's. It doesn't have to be that way by any law of physics, but seems to be a law of the marketplace.

    Exactly what head do you have? With detailed information you might get a more accurate answer.
     
  3. TxBass

    TxBass

    Jul 3, 2002
    Frisco, Texas
    I love the 10" sound...but the 15" does give that low B more presence(in my set-up). Of course, the real issue is whether the 4x10 goes to the frequency you need it to. I've found I like either the 4x10 by itself or the 2x10/1x15 stack. Just depends on the sound I'm looking for.

    2nd issue: you'll need to check the manual for what the amp is putting out in "bi-amp" mode. It will depend on the ohms for each cab. Exp: bridged at 4ohms my amp puts out 1000w, but when bi-amped with the same cabs it's only 700w.
     
  4. Captain Awesome

    Captain Awesome

    Apr 2, 2001
    PDX
    That really depends on the manufacturer. 15's do tend to have more low end for the most part.

    Eminence probably rates the Delta 10's based on a midrange frequency so when you're dealing with bass, the power handling on the Avatar would probably actually be more like the SWR.

    I play 4-string and usually my Avatar 2x10 can give me the sound/volume I need, but if you use the low B a lot maybe the 1x15 would be better. (I assume based on your post that you already have a 4x10...)

    those figures would be what your amp puts out in bridge(mono) mode if it does biamp. What amp do you have?
    that depends on what amp you have and the impedance (ohms) of the cab you're going to add.
     
  5. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    ok its a workingman 4004, and workingman 4x10... yes people say they arent the best, but i got them for christmas, anyway, it says in the manual i can use any two of the following as long as they are 8ohms.. )goliath3 4x10,2x10,big ben, and son of bertha) and one of the folowing at 4ohms, (henry,senior,triad, and big bertha) it doesnt mention what the output wattage will be when i biamp. the working man 4x10's lowest frequancy resopnse is 50hz, and the goliath junior, is 45hz ... so it may sound better with that combination. but the goliath is so darn expensive. thats why im thinking about the avatar.
    thanks for replys.
     
  6. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    I looked that one up and it says (2) 8 ohm cabs OR (1) 4 ohm cabinet, because it can drive a 4 ohm load at 400w.

    What this means is that you can run your 8 ohm 4x10 and an additional 8 ohm cabinet.

    This is not the same as bi-amping- in bi-amping you actually have (2) power sections- one for highs and one for lows, and the head has a crossover to split the signal. What you are describing is running 2 cabinets full-range.

    In this scenario, the 400w is split evenly between the 8 ohm cabinets and each one sees 200w.

    Don't underrate your stuff; I heard some WM series stuff a few years back and thought it sounded fine.

    I'd probably look at a 1x15 to go with your 4x10, but it's personal preference.
     
  7. Captain Awesome

    Captain Awesome

    Apr 2, 2001
    PDX
    Don't use frequency response specs to figure out what cabinet you want to add, those specs tend to be sketchy and they never really tell you how a cab SOUNDS. (Look at a freq. response chart for a typical bass cab and you'll see lots of peaks and valleys that the specs don't account for.)

    Like ESP-LTD I would get a 15... an Avatar 115 would cost about $210+shipping and the version with a horn is a little more.
     
  8. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    why a 15 and not a 2x10, I heard the 15's might be too boomy, also I like the way 10's sound.. would my amphead not be strong enough ? and how could i get the full 400 watts out of my cabinet? b/c I thought when you combine 2 speakers it brings it down to 4ohms, couldnt i daisy chain or something like that ? i just dont understand this stuff yet i guess.
     
  9. Captain Awesome

    Captain Awesome

    Apr 2, 2001
    PDX
    OK.
    Basically when you've got one 8-ohm cab hooked up (your 4x10) to your amp, the total load on your amp is 8 ohms, which means in your case that your amp is putting out 260 watts.

    If you add another 8-ohm cab, the total load on your amp is 4 ohms, which means your amp will be putting out 400 watts. The power will be more or less distributing the same amount of power to each cab, which means about 200 watts per cab.

    Whether or not 15's are too muddy depends on the player, the player's opinion, and the speaker itself. One reason to get a 210 instead is you could just use the head and the 210 for small gigs.
     
  10. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    Then you should certainly get more 10's ! Just make sure it's an 8 ohm cabinet.
     
  11. I use to bi-amp my Hartke rig. I used a 115XL on the bottom and a 4.5XL on the top. I used the x-over in my Alembic F1-X and set it to about 80. I fed hi and low inputs into a QSC-USA-850. If found that standing 20 feet in front of it, it sounded outstanding. But standing 5 ft in front it sounded thin. I ended up running both cabs full range and liking it better. If you have to play very loud and have no PA to re-inforce your bass then bi-amping is a useful thing. You can play louder and with more definition bi-amping. But for normal backline applications I think it is overkill.
     
  12. Audiosolace

    Audiosolace Guest

    Oct 8, 2002
    Knoxville, TN
    I'm looking to run a 2x10 with my 4x10 as well, but I don't know that I want both cabs to receive equal power from my amp. What I was thinking of doing was getting a 16 ohm 2x10 to go on top of my 8 ohm 4x10.

    Would that balance the output of the speakers?
     
  13. Captain Awesome

    Captain Awesome

    Apr 2, 2001
    PDX
    That would work, but the only company I know of that will wire up a cab for 16 ohms if you want is Avatar. And if you're running a 16 ohm 2x10 on its own for small gigs you probably won't get enough output.