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Define these musical symbols:

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by btrag, Sep 23, 2005.


  1. btrag

    btrag

    Mar 7, 2005
    Chicago
    I have an audition coming up, and ran into some symbols I've never seen before on the charts:

    1. Bb "triangle" 7
    what does the triangle symbolize?

    2. G +9 flat 5
    This is a G 9th chord with a flatted fifth, right? Why the plus sign?

    3. F9 (Ab)
    what is the root note here? Should I just play an F, G (9th) over this?

    4. A9
    this almost looks like a power chord. Does it have a major or minor quality to it?

    5. Dma7
    This is a major seventh chord, right?
     
  2. Whafrodamus

    Whafrodamus

    Oct 29, 2003
    Andover, MA
    1. Triangle means major methinks.

    2. The plus means augmented.

    3. I don't know

    4. If it doesn't say minor it's major (unless we're takling 7ths).

    5. Major seventh, si.
     
  3. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    1. Triangle 7 means maj7.

    2. Plus usually means augmented with triads and 7th chords, but with a 9th, I suspect the writer meant a sharp 9. If so, the chord would be G7#9b5, or G B Db F A#.

    3. If that's what the chart says, the chord is probably an F9--F A C Eb G--over an Ab bass.

    4. A9 is, well, A9, or A C# E G B.

    5. Yep, Dma7 is D major 7th.

    As a bassist, you don't always need to worry about hitting all the upper chordal extensions.
     
  4. Jazzin'

    Jazzin' ...Bluesin' and Funkin'

    1. BbMaj7 (1,3,5,7)
    2. G7#9 b5 (1,3,b5,b7,#9)
    3. F7#9 (1,3,5,b7,#9) (I've never seen this one before, but I assume they mean't that the 9 is augmented)
    4. A9 (1,3,5,b7,9)
    5. DMaj7 (1,3,5,7)
     
  5. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    1. Triangle means major 7

    2. The +9 could also mean "add 9" (1, 3, b5, 9) - many folks play fast and loose with chord symbols. What is the melody doing?

    3. Could mean a few things, again. Sometimes chords in parentheses are alternate chords - meant to be used on solos, for instance - hard to tell without seeing the chart. No harm in asking there....

    4. A9 means an A dominant 7 chord with a 9.

    5. yep - maj 7 chord
     
  6. btrag

    btrag

    Mar 7, 2005
    Chicago
    thanks, guys. Back to the toolshed......
     
  7. 3. that could be a F9 with a Ab pedal, or a Ab, F, A, C, Eb, G, which is funky (minor third and major third) or it could be a dumb way of writing a Fmin9 (or F-9) chord.
     
  8. Garry Goodman

    Garry Goodman

    Feb 26, 2003
    the + ALWAYS means #5 or augmented 5th and has absolutely nothing to do with the number that follows.

    G+9 is spelled g b d# f a.The b7 is a given. If you want to indicate a raised 9 , like g,b,d#,f and Bb it looks like G+7 (#9).


    To indicate a triad like g,b,d with an a you write Gmaj, add9.
     
  9. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    In theory, yes; in practice, not always. For example, I have seen +9 used to mean #9 a number of times. I don't use it that way myself when I write, but it does happen.
     
  10. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    But remember, the original chord asked about was G +9 *flat 5*. It seems unlikely to me, though of course not impossible, that the writer would have asked for a chord that had both a sharp 5 (as implied by the augmented sign) *and* a flat 5, or at least would have asked for it in precisely that way. That's why my guess is that a sharp 9 was what was meant, even if that was not the most correct way of writing it. (Though in that case it probably would have been more usual to see G7+9 or #9....)

    However, I guess it's also possible that what the writer meant was G+9#11, or G B D# F A C#.

    And as far as the chord you mentioned--G B D# F A# (not Bb)--besides the label you correctly applied to it, it's also commonly written G7#9#5 (or similar).
     
  11. Marc Piane

    Marc Piane

    Jun 14, 2004
    Chicago
    +9? It's is pretty impossible to say for sure with seeing the melody.
     
  12. Garry Goodman

    Garry Goodman

    Feb 26, 2003
    Well this always seems to happen,doesn't it?
    Some went to Berklee and believe that the triangle is the only way to write major 7th and the circle/slash is half diminished as opposed to minor 7(b5). It depends on where you learned this,but both work.

    A# and Bb are the same note,they sound the same and my post was in reference to the + sign and that it does not affect the 9.
    The way many of us write G B Db D# F Bb is :G+7(+9) .
    ( b5)


    He asked "why the plus sign"?
    The writer shouldn't be writing the chart if he doesn't know to write chord symbols,don't you think? Chords like G+7 (b5,b9,+9) exist and are sometimes indicated G7 alt..The scale source used to solo or play through this chord is melodic minor starting on the b9. The flat nine in this case in an Ab, and so some of us think of this chord in terms of Ab melodic minor in which case the note in question is a Bb.This chord functions as a V chord in minor.I would think that if the writer wanted a +11,he would indicate it.

    Any time there is a + sign in a altered dominant chord ,you can usually bet the scale source is melodic minor starting on the b9 of the chord. If the chord has a perfect 5th or a b5 with either a b9,#9 or both, you use a dominant 8 note scale (1/2-1-1/2-1 etc.) starting on the 5th except for a 9 (b5) in which case it is a whole tone scale starting on the fifth.

    Ab melodic minor in relation to G+7 ( b5,b9,+9):
    Ab Bb B* Db D#/Eb F G Ab
    b9 +9 M3 b5 +5 b7 R b9

    * if you want to think of the major 3rd of a G chord as Cb, be my guest :)
     
  13. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    Well, there always comes a point in this stuff where complete agreement and perfect consistency seem to become impossible. Not that that's necessarily so disastrous. Different people write things different ways, and as long as everybody understands what's meant, little harm is done. The problem in this case, for me, is that without any more info than the original poster provided (such as melody, other instrumental parts, etc.), it's hard to be absolutely positive what chord was meant. I agree, ideally a person shouldn't be writing charts if he/she doesn't know how to notate chords correctly, but you know how that goes.

    You're right, the notes of Ab melodic minor work fine over G7alt. If we really wanted to be exact in relating those notes to some kind of G scale associated with a G7 chord that has sharp/flat 5 and sharp/flat 9, we'd probably have to think of it more like this:

    G Ab A# B Db D# F G


    But I doubt that many, if any, people really do this in practice. I sure don't. Too weird. :)
     
  14. Correlli

    Correlli

    Apr 2, 2004
    New Zealand
    Cmaj7
    Code:
    |  |  |  |
    |  E  |  |
    C  |  |  |
    |  |  B  |
    |  G  |  |
    |  |  |  |
    [U]|  |  |  |[/U]  12
    
    C+9b5
    The ninth is augmented
    The fifth is diminished
    Code:
    |  |  |  |
    |  E  |  |
    C  |  Bb D#
    |  Gb |  |
    |  |  |  |
    |  |  |  |
    [U]|  |  |  |[/U]  12
    
    C9
    Code:
    |  |  |  |
    |  E  |  D
    C  |  Bb |
    |  |  |  |
    |  G  |  |
    |  |  |  |
    [U]|  |  |  |[/U]  12
    
    Cm9
    Code:
    
    |  |  G  |
    |  Eb |  |
    |  |  |  D
    C  |  Bb |
    |  |  |  |
    |  |  |  |
    |  |  |  |
    [U]|  |  |  |[/U]  12
    
    C9/6 (C9add6)
    Code:
    |  |  G  |
    |  |  |  |
    |  E  A  D
    C  |  Bb |
    |  |  |  |
    |  |  |  |
    |  |  |  |
    [U]|  |  |  |[/U]  12
    
     
  15. quallabone

    quallabone

    Aug 2, 2003
    I would like to remind everyone that the original real book was a berklee copying assignment. Would anyone care to guess what the most error filled music book on the planet is.

    I just thought I'd interject with something trivial.

    And I've seen "+" used as shorthand for Aug, and as an alteration on an upper extension