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Definitive Word on Fender OV Jazz Set?

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by Bongolation, Dec 8, 2011.


  1. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    Search reveals a thousand oblique references, but no real serious rundown that I can find.

    I ordered a new 099-2123-000 set from Amazon the other day on impulse because they were on sale for $62 (of course, Amazon's sourcing being what it is, they'll probably be broken in half with a sheetrock screw driven in them) and I thought they might be an improvement over the 58358/9 pickup set.

    This is probably the #1 selling set of replacement "upgrade" pickups for the Jazz, so someone must have a really expert, lab-coat analysis of them by now. I have some specific questions, but they'll wait until I see where this goes.

    You know, these guys:

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for any hard data, good links, whatever!
     
  2. Is on the sticky, at the top of this forum. Pretty definitive analysis of all the Jazz pick-ups available.
     
  3. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    Didn't find anything useful there.

    I was looking for something a bit more technical.

    That's OK, I always want harder data than TB wants to give up. :meh:
     
  4. narud

    narud Supporting Member

    Mar 15, 2001
    santa maria,california
    its a good pickup. it just depends on what you want out of it. these and the custom shop 60's are kind of like the average of old vintage pickups and are pretty similar sounding. both sets are wound to the 7k range(usually lower side of 7) and old fender pickups could be anywhere from low 6k to mid 8k. so, theyre not the biggest in the low mids and have a more glassy extended high end than grindy high mids, low highs that you get out of a lot of the other vintage repros which have more wire on them.

    when using these pickups or an older fender with lower wind pickups, i sometimes like to use a cable with higher capacitance to bring down the glass and get some grit and grind back.
     
  5. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    Yeah, this wild winding inconsistency in old stuff makes me giggle when people go on about "vintage" sound. There was a huge spread.

    I'm using flats, which do a pretty good job of making highs go away altogether. :smug:

    I was wondering about whether these have the fiber spacers and the flatter coil.

    What I really want to know is what effect the brass plates have. There's no significant EMI shielding going on with them and the cavities are already paint-shielded anyway. So...what do they do? The only thing I can see is that this would effect the field electrodynamics (per Laurence), but hardly noticeably with plates this small, thin and far from the coils.

    Even weirder, Fender puts them in lower-cost basses with the 58358/9 set and nobody's ever going to know they're even there.

    Very strange.
    You know Bongomania spent about a million words and much lab work proving (?) this is entirely in your imagination, right?:bag:
     
  6. narud

    narud Supporting Member

    Mar 15, 2001
    santa maria,california
    with active basses you cant hear the capacitance difference. passive is another story.
     
  7. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    Actually not in short runs into an amp, also proved. Long runs, yes, especially into recording interfaces.

    Anyway, what about them plates?
     
  8. narud

    narud Supporting Member

    Mar 15, 2001
    santa maria,california
    if the cable is a non issue than the plates are going to be a super non issue;) i dont hear any difference whether using them or not.
     
  9. PJRL

    PJRL

    Mar 27, 2010
    greenfield center NY
    They are the pickups you will find in a USA Vintage 62RI Jazz bass, the plates are for grounding I believe. The bridge plate has a tab that goes to the bridge, under the bridge plate. I have a 62 RI-USA J. I like them, to me they have a classic sound but as others have said, the old J P-ups are all over the place.

    My non lab coat opinion is, they are very good ! 62 was a great price as long as they are OK :bassist:

    I like the "Classic" sound and I want to try the Fender CS pick-up set, just cuz I need to ........
     
  10. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    In the cases I've looked at, they're merely grounded in the control cavity and the bridge is grounded separately, but ground is ground. [shrug]

    I'm of the opinion they may have provided some minimal and primitive ESI shielding in the otherwise unshielded originals, but this would be a pointless expense in the modern paint-shielded bodies...and FMIC is not known for pointless expense in invisible features that don't do anything. :confused:

    Thick steel baseplates on Telecaster and Stratocaster bridge pickups do have a distinct effect on the sound of the pickups, but they are magnetically coupled to the pickup and the enhanced magnet structure mass and ferrodynamic effect on the field actually does something you can hear.

    A couple of puny brass sheets 1/4" off from the magnets and coils don't seem like they'd do much except waste money.

    That's always a risk with Amazon. I got three sets of Fender classical strings from Amazon this week and two sets had huge 2"-3" gaps in the winding plating, a defect I have never, ever seen before. The other stuff I got was a damaged return.

    Where they get this stuff, I cannot imagine.

    Which is why I got these. :rollno:

    I have no idea how the stock 58358/9 set even sounds. I don't think they've been plugged into a bass amp yet.

    I hope I have the presence of mind to record a carefully controlled comparison test.
     
  11. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    Finally got around to installing these today and doing a comparison DI into a clean track each.

    With flats, the difference is negligible. Of course, with flats everything sounds pretty much the same anyway.

    To the extent there's any audible difference, the OVs are a bit brighter in the hi-mids, it sounds like, not what I was after.

    Seriously, I don't think a normal human would have been able to tell them apart, blind.

    Waste of time, effort and money. I'll probably switch back to the originals and sell these.
     
  12. SGD Lutherie

    SGD Lutherie Banned Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2008
    Bloomfield, NJ
    Owner, SGD Music Products
    What tonal change are you looking for?
     
  13. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    I wasn't so much looking for change, but rather bought these out of curiosity to see if there would be any significant opening of the heavens with descent of angels, like everyone seems to expect from pickup "upgrades." After all, these were aftermarket and they cost more.

    Didn't happen. If I hadn't recorded test tracks, I probably could have convinced myself that the angels appeared, and I now had AWESUUUMTONE like everyone else does. :rollno:

    What I always avoid is brighter or hotter or grindier or more "modern" sound. These sounded a little bit brighter, not significantly. After all it's on a bass with flats.

    Not enough to matter one way or the other. Even using a pick, I could barely scare up anything to differentiate them A/Bing between the tracks.

    The DCR on the 58358/9 set was 6.85K & 6.63K, which would suggest to me a little milder-output set with maybe a little less high end. Whatever, to the extent I got any change, that was what I heard different with the OVs. I think there may have been a little more clarity and definition with the OV bridge pickup, but nothing earthshaking. :meh:

    In that these were both nominally "vintage" (the marketing buzzword to end 'em all, right?), it shouldn't be surprising that they were this close in sound, but I wasn't expecting "Vintage" to actually mean anything. :p

    Joke's on me!
     
  14. SGD Lutherie

    SGD Lutherie Banned Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2008
    Bloomfield, NJ
    Owner, SGD Music Products
    One thing is that the various Jazz and P pickup on the market are wound like they have always been, so they will pretty much sound the same, with slight variation.

    They are very simple pickup designs. Unless you make a drastic change in coil geometry, or wire gauge, or magnet type, a Jazz pickup should sound like a Jazz pickup. Just maybe a different Jazz pickup.

    A lower wound set will be brighter, while a otter set will have more lows and mids and less highs.
     
  15. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    I was under the impression that "real" Jazz vintage-style had flatter coils, which I believe at one point you said would increase the lower-end thump.

    Or was that just on Precision pickups? :confused:
    So, my impression is exactly backwards?

    Well, there wasn't much difference, so I could just as well have imagined it anyway.

    I tried as much as I could to eliminate variables, match pole height, etc., blah.
     
  16. SGD Lutherie

    SGD Lutherie Banned Commercial User

    Aug 21, 2008
    Bloomfield, NJ
    Owner, SGD Music Products
    The P bass has squat coils. So does the Jazzmaster guitar. The Jazz bass and Strat have tall coils. The squat coils are mellower sounding, while the tall coils are brighter.

    Correct.

    I'd imagine they would sound very close.

    Narud had the differences summed up pretty well before.
     
  17. PJRL

    PJRL

    Mar 27, 2010
    greenfield center NY
    What is the 58358/9 set ?
     
  18. Bongolation

    Bongolation

    Nov 9, 2001
    California
    No Bogus Endorsements
    The MIM "Vintage" set used on the Classic, Highway One and Roadworn.

    It has flushmount magnets. The OVs have protruding magnets with beveled edges.

    It uses the standard plastic bobbin.
     

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