# Design Help Needed!!!

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by eleonn, Aug 29, 2008.

1. ### eleonn

Aug 24, 2006
Lima - Perú
First of all I have to say that its 12 oclock at night (wrote at that hour, published just now) so I'm tired so if something it write here doesnt make sense just tell me and Ill write this in spanish Having said this... here we go.

I'm designing my second build which will be this (or something like that)

As you can see it will be a multiscale 5er. In the next pic youll see the headstock with no angle back.

I want to angle the headstock back 15°. So youll be thinking... and wheres the problem do you? Well the problem is that on a multiscale neck, the angle of the headstock is not going to be constant. Here are a two pics for you to visualize the problem

My problem is that I can't "see" how to make (and how to do) this non-constant angle of the headstock and thats why I tried to modeled this on 3d to help me work this out but still don't have a clear way to do this. There are few guys that have mention this before but I just don't know a few things like:

1. How to do/make this non-constant angle? I mean here about the cut of the wood.
2. Which side of the headstock is the one to stay at 15°?
3. How the volute is going to change? This is because usually the "tip" of the volute goes under the break off of the angle of the headstock.
4. Would the scart at the neck would be easier to do in this particular case rather than the scarf at the headstock?
5. Do you think I may need to smoke some funny grass to work out with this?

I have to say that there are two errors on the 3d model. The first one is that the neck goes all the way through the headstock up to the face of the it. This was made on purpose so it can help me to visualize how the neck would go into the headstock. The second error is that I made the rotation of the headstock and then move it down to where the headstock reachs the neck which is on its bass side. In reality the point of the headstock should be plane flush with the neck and not to glued as it looks (not sure if you follow me with this). Ill correct that on weekend if I have some time.

EDIT: Sorry for the big pics. I thought they had the right size. I'll upload new smaller size ones.

2. ### PasdaBeer

Nov 2, 2002
Santa Rosa California
whats the diference between the low and high strings nut to scarf?

3. ### eleonn

Aug 24, 2006
Lima - Perú
Hummm not sure what are you asking me. Is it about the scale it goes from 33.5" to 35.5"

4. ### PasdaBeer

Nov 2, 2002
Santa Rosa California
ok, between were the scarf join meets normaly do the higher scale end...

if thats in sketch up or auto cad i can take a look at it and see if i can figure something out.

5. ### Phil Mailloux

Mar 25, 2005
Brisbane, Australia
Builder: Mailloux Basses
It looks to me like you're making it more complicated by drawing it out in 3D

If you want to angle the headstock 15 degrees (a bit much in my opinion) then both sides of the fretboard will both angle at 15 degrees. The fact that the break angle at the nut is at a different place in the length of the neck will make your headstock "twist" when you look at it from down the neck.

Wherever you choose to make your scarf joint shouldn't make a difference since you're doing it when the wood is in the rough form. Just make sure you've got enough thickness for the headstock since the twist in it means you need more material.

6. ### eleonn

Aug 24, 2006
Lima - Perú
But if I cut the scarf as I would to in a non multiscale neck I think that the headstock not only would twist but move to the high side of the neck too... I guess.

7. ### Phil Mailloux

Mar 25, 2005
Brisbane, Australia
Builder: Mailloux Basses
If you cut the scarf in the headstock part, the line will obviously twist into an angle since the headstock also goes at an angle but it usually is customary to veneer the top and back of the headstock (or paint it black) when you do that sort of scarf. You don't really want to see a scarf line inside the headstock right?

The easiest is definitely to do the scarf in the neck.

8. ### eleonn

Aug 24, 2006
Lima - Perú
I was thinking to ad veneers on the top and back of the headstock to hide the scarf line.

So I just have to twist the hadstock and thats it?

What about the volute? Does the "tip" have to follow the line of the break angle or the zero fret the whole length of it?

9. ### Phil Mailloux

Mar 25, 2005
Brisbane, Australia
Builder: Mailloux Basses
You just do a normal volute. Here's a couple of pics to show you where I did mine. You can see where the nut is on both sides

Aug 24, 2006
Lima - Perú
11. ### Phil Mailloux

Mar 25, 2005
Brisbane, Australia
Builder: Mailloux Basses
Yes, the angle will be 15 degrees everywhere at the nut. It is a compound angle (2 angles): 15 degrees following the nut in the break angle + whatever angle the nut has in comparison to the fretboard length.

I say a twist because when you look down the neck from the headstock the headstock appears twisted. I dont mean that youll have to shave the headstock in a radius. The headstock will still be flat on both sides.

12. ### Mikey R

Apr 14, 2008
North Yorkshire, UK
Hey Eleonn, I really liked seeing your first one, looking forward to the second!

If you make the headstock out of 25mm blank, and scarf at the neck, then you can just do a normal straight scarf joint - you will have plenty of thickness to cut the compond angle with a handplane once the head is glued up (or before, but thats difficult to describe). Scribe the line down the treble side of the headstock, you will see you will only need to remove 2mm or so of wood. You can then straighten up the back of the headstock with a handsaw to match.

Much easier than trying to cut the compond angle in the scarf!

For the volute, i think it will be much easier to envisage it when you have the neck in your hand

EDIT: ok, maybe a little more than 2mm, depending on where your parallel fret is. Mine is at the 3rd fret, and my scale goes 34 to 35.5 inch with low B.

13. ### eleonn

Aug 24, 2006
Lima - Perú
Thanks Mikey.

My parallel fret will be the 7th.